Operation Uranus

What I meant is that I agree with you that Zhukov is not the sole man responsible for the victory at Stalingrad. So there is no argument between us.

 

oh I thaught you said you there is no argument.

 

Zhukov was more or less interested or obsessed with the Army Group Center and its destruction. Just read the book and you know:

Amazon.com: Zhukov's Greatest Defeat: The Red Army's Epic Disaster in Operation Mars, 1942 (Modern War Studies): Books: David M. Glantz,Mary E. Glantz

 

I have mentioned this before, but this is the only book written by Glantz which I have a problem with and feel a little uneasy about. In fact more and more historians are starting to argue against it in recent times as well.

The major argument to this book is while the intial assualt was a failure in terms of destroying the army. It did accomplish its primary goal, which was to prevent Manstein from reaching Stalingrad in order to rescue the 6th army. Historians now argue that while a large force was sent out to fight their main objective was to keep Manstein in place, which it accomlished very well.

 

I sort of don´t get it, Slo...

The book is all about how close Zhukov was getting through the AGC and truly destroying the whole German front. We are talking about "inches" here. It is true Zhukov used alot of men and tanks as usual and he lost at Rzhev but ...

I know the book is huge but like Kharkov 1943 you have to read to understand. Zhukov was trying to grab alot more than just Stalingrad, he was going to win the war in Dec 1942.

 

I first wanted to do something on operation mars but that is the only book that is available in our library.


Anyways did operaion mars impact Zhukovs decision in Operation Uranus?

 

This is the argument against Glantz's claim

Operation Mars

Yes he was trying the win the war as soon as possible but not careless fashion

 

From one of the reviews....

As Glantz clearly demonstrates, the well-known Operation Uranus counterattack at Stalingrad was actually a strategic deception for the main effort near Moscow. Soviet Marshal Zhukov wanted to destroy ArmeeGruppe Center but he ordered the Stalingrad attack to precede Operation Mars in order to divert German attention and reinforcements to the south. Unfortunately for him, the Germans did not become diverted and their defenses remained steady. Unlike the 6th Army at Stalingrad, the German 9th Army was well entrenched and had powerful mobile reserves. Zhukov's attack was a spectacular failure despite larger forces being used there than in the Stalingrad counteroffensive. The Soviets failed primarily because they could not breach the German defenses quickly and the Germans (Field Marshal Model) did a superb job of shifting mobile reserves around to meet each crisis in turn. Severe winter weather actually degraded the Soviet artillery preparation (poor visibility limited observed fires).

Amazon.com: Zhukov's Greatest Defeat: The Red Army's Epic Disaster in Operation Mars, 1942 (Modern War Studies): Books: David M. Glantz,Mary E. Glantz



Just read the book, if you haven´t. I personally was amazed how close the German lines were from being crushed. Then again nobody incl me had never heard of the battles in the AGC center area in August 1942 where Zhukov tried to make a breakthrough while the world concentrated on the battles in the AGC area. Also in the same book.

 

Sound like an intresting book.

What was the date for operation Uranus?

Oct-November, 20?

 

Starting Nov 19th 1942

Operation Uranus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Well didnt the planing start from October?

The Germans surrendered on the Feb 2?

Well I havnt gotten any books yet but I was looking through the chapters of one of the books and one of the chapters was called Operation Uranus Oct-Nov 1942.

 

The planning part definitely started something like August-September 1942 at the latest. The operation was probably already planned to start in late Oct but was rescheduled a couple of times. Also in the Glantz book.

 

So a reasonable date is oct-feb?

 

Yes. But like said the operation was activated on 19th Nov and I think that counts more than any planning dates.

 

Thanks guys for your help!

I finally got books and to my surprise i got more than I needed. Some of them are in german/russian though i just looked at the title and took it lol.


here is a picture.

 

Holy Virgin of Kazan, what library did you plunder?

I've read a few of those, but here are titles I hadn't even heard of!

 

Yes, that looks good but perhaps 6 months is the minimum to read all those...

Excellent info in those books!

 

Hmm, wrong post.

 

Well no way I am going to read all of them lol. Some only got like 5-10 pages on operation Uranus.


I got them from two libraries. University of British Columbia's Library and Simon Fraser University Library.

so far just by looking at the books the best one is Battle for Stalingrad by chuikov its really to the point.


BTW does anyone know what APN stand for? One of my books sais translated by : APN