PPSh-41, Thompson M1A1, or MP-40?

My dad had a FFL years ago and he had a thompson dam thing jammed constantly... never fired a PPSH.. I have fired an Ak-47 and and M-4 sopmod ask me about those.. also fired an m-3 greasegun in the late 80s when a buddy of mine as a tanker... it too jammed constantly

 

Thats why Im getting my C&R license. And unlike some here I also had the opportunity to fire quite a few WWII weapons. So if I had to choose it would be the weapon I have at hand or issued with. Kinda like asking which weapon do you want to be shot with? It doesn't matter. All will kill you just as dead.

 

Agreed on all counts. The Thompson could be fired either semi-automatic or full automatic. Fully locked and loaded, it was heavy to carry, but then, so was a BAR. Their reputation for reliability was legendary. Even though they had been retired by the time of the Korean War, a number of US Army and Marine combat troops liberated Thompson Submachineguns taken from the bodies of dead Red Chinese soldiers and carried them throughout the war. Those Thompsons had been sent to Nationalist China as "Lend Lease" before and during WWII and now they were back in the hands of US troops. I guess Lend Lease came home to roost.

 

my opinion is going to be a bit different and its what not your really asking for but here's my 2 cents, None of them, i would take a bolt-action rifle over all of those like a Mosion Nagant 19/31, M44, Mauser98k, Springfield 1903 ect. ect. any day because theres no real need for full auto fire except for close quarters-combat.

 

Umm Mauser. Ever heard of supressive fire.... bolt actions arent worth a damm when ya wana lay down a solid wall of lead and thats key in combat from ww1 to present

 

key to combat LOL i don't see snipers using mp40s and tommys

 

its obvious your neither a professional soldier or a sniper...Gee the growing trend in sniper rifles is automatics.... but then again you know everything.... I just have spent a few YEARS in combat zones while you read about the glorious Wehrmacht right?

 

Ya Think? LOL

 

i never said anything about me being a solider, I'm not OK, the closest thing i am to a sniper is a professional hunter

 

Ok let me teach ya something I appreciate you like Long rifles... In combat Suppresive fire is used to keep the bad guy pinned down, yes a sniper can keep units pinned.. but a wall of lead works wonders.. not all man can shoot accuratly in battle.. for a variety of reason... and automatic fire works well trust me LOL... yes snipers are a wonderful tool also buit for the run of the mill grunt auto fire is a must.

 

also you are right about there being a trend for semi-auto sniper rifles but you must take in the fact that the semi auto will never be a bolt action, thats partly why when some years ago the M21 [ M14 for dummies] was replaced when the M24 SWS was put into service due to the United Utates deciding that the M21 was not as accurate for desert combat where the range of the M21 was not that impressive in those longer ranges but some snipers like semi auto, while some like a bolt-action.

 

Snipers are annoying. They don't win wars. They don't even win battles and rarely make a difference in small skirmishes.

 

K98: Try this experiment some time: Go out to the boonies. Then lay out a two or three mile course with some targets here and there along it. Better yet, get a friend to do this.
Then, go out the next day and vigorously walk along the course ducking behind cover and occasionally jogging and running. All the while be sure to carry a rucksack with 30 or 40 lbs of rocks in it with you.
When you see a target you have to immediately engage it. Watch how hard it is to hit something at even 50 yards when you are breathing hard and just plopped to the ground. It's damn near impossible.

Semi auto in that situation is a huge, huge advantage. You can empty your weapon into the target in seconds ensuring at least one or two hits out of a clip.

That's the difference in combat.

 

ah, well when the guy right next to you has his head blown off you will understand how important snipers can be in URBAN and RURAL combat, its been that way since ww1 and they are still very important.

 

OK Mauser i ask again HOW do you know? Ya never served a day in the armed forces you just wont let your little Germen army sniper fantasy die... Go play call of duty or something jeez

 

not a personal experience but i have talked to many vets of both sides of the war and if i wanted to be in the army i would try to be a sniper, yes i am in the qualifying age range to do so .

 

Well if ya already spoke to actual ww2 VETS why on earth ask US????

 

Funny...

I knew a sniper in 6th Airborne Division who carried an MP40 in Normandy along with his Lee-Enfield.

So yes, snipers do use MP40s.

Anyone else tired of these sort of threads?

 

of threads, on any forum. But that said, mis-information shouldn't be ignored as it does contribute to an incorrect opinion position. If left "ignored" the myths and mistakes will just continue and snowball into more poor video games which somehow get treated as "history" these days.

In the SMG weapons, I am not particularly impressed by the PPsH 41, or the German MP-38/40 in 9mm, even though they were both fine in filling the needs of their nations at the time.

The Thompson gets short shrift, in some instances as my post from Sharpe’s reveiw explained, and by the time it was replaced by the M3 the cost of producing one with spare parts had fallen to about $40 each. How about overlooked weapons such as the M1 .30 caliber Carbine in the M2 version (which could have been the first western allied "assault rifle"), and the M3A1 "Grease Gun" which was just an inexpensive way to deliver multiple rounds as cheap as possible. That said, here are the data I have compiled on a couple of weapons.

Pistolet-Pulemyot Shpagina obr 1941G (Burp gun)
Caliber: 7.62x25mm Soviet auto (interchangeable with 7.63 Mauser)
Length: 33 in ( 838mm)
Weight (unloaded): 8 lb (3.64kg)
Barrel: 10.5 in (266mm), 4 groove, right-hand twist
Magazine: 35 round detachable box or 71 round drum
Ammunition: Type P1; 86 gr bullet, 8 gr charge (1.35in)
Type P-41; 74 gr bullet, 8 gr charge , AP/Incdy (1.36in)
Rate of Fire: 900rpm
Muzzle Velocity: 1500 fps P1; 1600 fps P-41


Operation: M1, M1A1 Semiautomatic Carbine; M2 Selective fire
Length: 35.65 in. (905 mm) in the full stock version.
Weight unloaded: 5 lb 7 oz (2.48 kg)
Barrel: 18 in. 4 grooves, right hand twist
Magazine: 15 or 30 round detachable box
Muzzle: velocity 1990 fps, 967 ft-lbs.
Rate of Fire: M2 on full auto, 650-700rpm
300 yds: 1035 fps, 262 ft-lbs
Ammunition: 108 gr bullet, 13 gr charge, US Service M1
Effective Range: 300 yds


If the existing M2 action had been coupled with the existing M1A1 folding stock paratrooper model with its pistol grip, and the existing 30 round curved box, the .30 caliber Carbine might have been a real surprise to our Nazi enemies in "urban conflict", but none of that happened. It (the "baby Garand’) had a more powerful bullet than the PPsH, and was extremely reliable.

I owned an Inland model M1A1 in the folding stock for years and years (since the fifties when I bought it in the cosmoline as surplus). The wire stock "overcenter" locks had worn out, the leather cheek piece had almost rotted away (covered in duct tape), and the pistol grip and forestock were getting pretty "sad". I sent away for a new stock kit, but since I didn’t have a permit for said item it couldn’t be shipped to me.

I have a friend here in Billings who is a licensed gunsmith, and he sent of to Numrich for the parts I had found. He also agreed to re-Parkerize my little sweetie while he had it in his shop. Sadly a set of range fires here in Mt. a few years ago consumed his "outbuilding" behind his home. My little M1A1 was in there. The firefighters were hesitant to approach his shop as it contained many pounds of powder as well as primers. It burnt to the ground. His insurance did eventually cover my loss in cash, but not without fighting about the weapon and its provenance.

I fortunately had all that stuff recorded in my own files, so they had to replace my original .30 Carbine in estimated cash value. Ah well, I ramble.

On to the M3 "Grease Gun", it has a slightly shorter barrel than the Tommy gun (8" rather than 10.5"), and its range is surely diminished because of this. But it other advantages besides inexpensive production. It is equipped with a folding (telescoping) metal wire stock, that can be removed and used to load rounds into the magazine. The stock also features threads at both ends used to attach a bore brush that creates a cleaning rod. In December 1944 a modernized version of the M3 was introduced into service known as the M3A1, which has several new features, among them the crank-type cocking mechanism was removed and a recess was machined into the bolt allowing the bolt to be cocked with the user’s finger, the ejection port and ejection port "dust" cover were enlarged, a magazine release button cover was added and a magazine loading device was welded into the wire stock.

Additionally the bolt latch was changed, the barrel bushing sleeve received cuts that assist in barrel removal with the use of the stock, a larger oiler was installed and a spare lubricant mount was removed (located at the left side of the cocking lever assembly), replaced with an oiler installed inside the pistol grip. Another advantage was achieved with the ability of swapping out the barrel, bolt and using an adapter which allowed for the use of the 9mm round (German or British) and STEN SMG magazines. These adopting abilities were included in each M3A1, but not always shipped with each weapon. They could be had (since they had already been produced), but only on request by a Quartermaster Corp in an area.

The other modifications of the M3A1 resulted in a reduced weight and improved reliability; these changes also improved maintenance and field stripping (i.e. to remove the bolt and recoil assembly the user simply has to unscrew the barrel cover using the wire-stock; in the original M3 it was necessary to first remove the trigger guard, then detach the crank assembly from the receiver housing). And it was still produced at less than $20 USD. Since it was a full "auto" only, its cyclic rate was slowed down to a max. of about 450 rounds per. A skilled "gunner" could actually pull of single shots however, without a "lever" to choose between semi- and full.

In 1945 alone the Guide Lamp factory manufactured close to 15,500 M3A1 submachine guns. Additionally, during the Korean War another 33,000 units were built at the Ithaca Gun Co.

The M3 and M3A1 were "officially retired" from US service in 1957; however they continued to be used until the mid 1990s by armored vehicle crews and truck drivers due to their ability to use both 9mm and .45 caliber rounds with little "in field" changes. A barrel, a bolt, and an adapter to the old STEN magazine design.

Most from:

United States Submachine Guns, Frank A. Iannamico, 2004.

Probably my last post on this subject.

 

i don't see why army's like these small rounds, there excuse is recoil but unless you have skinny 120 pound men in your army your men should have no problem at controlling a full power round on full auto, i have fired mg42s,mg34s, B.A.Rs, the Johnson LMG and the recoil is not that bad.