Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Prinz Eugen In 1945

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Western Front & Atlan' started by Shuttlelover101, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    617
    I go back should would not have stood a chance in 1945 agasint Allied shipping forces. she was alrady devalued in terms of armament having the latest but low in calibre for AAA weapons - 1944, why was that because the KM in 44-45 new that their heavy ships could only be used in the support role of which it excelled to the land forces retreating out of harms way of the Soviets, every Km ship was under Soviet Air-attack and even small Fischerie boots were carrying single and twin 2cm cannon.
     
  2. Shuttlelover101

    Shuttlelover101 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    1
    guys,
    dont hate me, but what they should have done was move all the heavy ships to Japan, but that just me!
    Nikki
     
  3. Shuttlelover101

    Shuttlelover101 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    1
    What do you guys thing of This: Guys,
    dont hate me, but what they should have done was move all the heavy ships to Japan, but that just me! and would that have worked?
    Nikki
     
  4. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,713
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    I believe the reason you didn't get any answer was that option back in June was that it wasn't available under any scenerio. None of the Axis powers had fuel to spare for such a move. Putting a higher fuel requirement on any of them by attempting to shift the ships would have been of no benefit.
     
  5. Shuttlelover101

    Shuttlelover101 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    1
    Clint,
    I was just asking, Dont get mad at me!!
    Nikki
     
  6. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,713
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Neither "mad" nor angry, nor anything else. Just don't think that (shifting of ships) is an option as per the surface ships of the Axis powers.
     
  7. Shuttlelover101

    Shuttlelover101 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    1
    guys,
    If PG was able to give, light Cruiser Dido and Heavy cruiser Devonshire, H.M.C.S. Iroqoois and H.M.S. Savage, could US Heavy cruisers Baltimore, Boston, Canberra, Quincy,Pittsburgh, Saint Paul along with the help from Heavy cruiser HMS Devonshire and Canadian DD HMCS Iroqoois. then with US light cruisers: USS Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Savannah, Nashville, Phoenix, Boise, Honolulu, St. Louis along with light Cruiser Dido, HMS Savage coming in from the front, she totally corner! What do you thing. then have, HMS Devonshire and Canadian DD HMCS Iroqoois along with light Cruiser Dido, HMS Savage, come in just those four, then with the other 14 ships they all that her to a US naval base, then what? let me know ok! what do you guys thing? or is she dog-meat?
    Nikki
     
  8. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,713
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Dog meat. Why the fascination with this pretty but basically poor example?
     
  9. ULITHI

    ULITHI Ace

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,828
    Likes Received:
    331
    Location:
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Deleted by user.
     
  10. Shuttlelover101

    Shuttlelover101 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    1
    Guys,
    I dont neam in a first, i mean a running sea chase!
    Nikki
     
  11. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,713
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Did you mean "fight" when you posted "first"? If so in either case the PE is dog meat. Remember that her unreliable boilers made her "sprint" speed a very short term burst of speed. She couldn't maintain anything like that speed, perhaps half for any distance. So she couldn't fight her way out, and couldn't run away. Dog-meat, as I mentioned before.

    Wishing she had a better and more reliable propulsion system doesn't make it so.


    ps. you also seem to post "thing" when I am sure you mean "think"! The "k" and the "g" are far from each other on my keyboard.
     
  12. Shuttlelover101

    Shuttlelover101 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    1
    clint,
    Ya, I did! my spilling can be bad sometimes! could US Heavy cruisers Baltimore, Boston, Canberra, Quincy,Pittsburgh, Saint Paul along with the help from Heavy cruiser HMS Devonshire and Canadian DD HMCS Iroqoois come in on her in a U shape from behind her and with US light cruisers: USS Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Savannah, Nashville, Phoenix, Boise, Honolulu, St. Louis along with light Cruiser Dido, HMS Savage coming in from the front, also in a U shape! then just Dido, Devonshire, Iroqoois and little Savage, come in on her, What do you think?
    Nikki
     
  13. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,713
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Why do you continue to think the PE would have to be "ganged up on" to loose? It couldn't run away (weak propulsion system), it couldn't out gun most of them, and didn't have the armor to take their hits. It just isn't necessary to "gang up" on the Prinz, and that is all there is to it.

    They don't need to "trap her" in a U shape net, they don't need to bother. Many could simply take her on, one on one and win. But, truth be told they would probably just chase her until her boilers failed and then put her down with as many ships as they had available at the moment to get "it over with" as painlessly for the Allied ships as possible.
     
  14. Shuttlelover101

    Shuttlelover101 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    1
    Clint,
    yes her boilers did, work well, If she could get enough of a lead, she's home free, that's were i would chase, her in to the four Iowas? what do you think?
    Nikki
     
  15. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    8,602
    Likes Received:
    1,824
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Shuttelover101, aka NASAFAN101, aka Nikki,

    The lack of responses is probably due to your preposterous hypothetical situations that you continue to put the Prinz Eugen in. For instance, your latest nonsense putting the Eugen up against 7 heavy cruisers, 9 light cruisers, and two destroyers. Before that it was the 10 US "fast battleships." Before that it was the Repulse, Renown, and 5 destroyers. Not to mention the fact that the objective of all these ships is to capture the PE and not SINK her.

    If you would base your hypothetical Prinz Eugen situations more in reality, rather than your usual implausible settings, you would probably get a better response from the forum members.

    As to what I think, I stand by the response I gave you back in 2009 over at AHF. Even after a year and some months it has not changed.
    My 2 cents on the matter...
     
  16. Shuttlelover101

    Shuttlelover101 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    1
    Takao,
    why are you being so critical with all these what If's? IF i had a good naval simulator, something, i can put this ideas into!
    Nikki
     
  17. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,312
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Location:
    Michigan
    Lopsided scenarios are:
    1) not every intersting
    2) not very informative

    In regards to 2 one of the reasons many people get involved with the what if's is that one can learn a lot looking up and analyzing the information necessary to produce a reasonable one. Once they get too far into the mists though this becomes pretty marginal. Sort of like hunting rabbits with howitzers. You might not even know if you hit.
     
  18. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    The Prinz Eugen wouldn't have a chance given the circumstances.

    1 - The PE is escorted by 4 ships (with ammunition) while she doesn't have any. If the PE decides to run, all one of the escorting vessels has to do is pop a torpedo below the waterline or open up with their main battery. This would all occur at point-blank range, against a target who couldn't shoot back. To put this in perspective, it would be like a private plane being forced to land by NORAD fighters only to escape and outrun them.

    2-Prinz Eugen is a cruiser. The ten "heavyweights" of the USN are battleships. These ships (notably the Iowa class) had much improved weaponry (the main battery was twice the diameter of that on the PE), had greatly improved fire control, had better-trained crews (in terms of surface naval warfare) as well as many other factors. One salvo of 16" fire from one of the Iowas would likely knock her out of action. You are proposing having ten of the USN battleships? No way the PE is making it out. In fact, the PE would be lucky to even moderately damage on of the attackers.

    3 - The PE was hardly that great of a warship. She survived mainly due to being tied up in port for repairs most of the war. If she was to be sent on a Bismarck-like sortie alone, she would end up the same way.

    4 - If (A BIG IF) the PE did managed to escape, where would she go? Japan? No, likely doesn't have enough fuel. Argentina?

    In Summary: to use another analogy - that would be like getting a 1950s vintage Foxtrot-class Soviet diesel sub (without torpedoes) and putting it up against a modern Seawolf or Los Angeles class attack sub.

    All the best.
     
  19. Shuttlelover101

    Shuttlelover101 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    1
    Guys,
    I wasnt trying to come across as a butthead with all this, it just she's one of my favorite ships, next to her bigger Brother Bismarck, I know there not in the same class, but from what i remember, their crews called the two ships Brother and Sister! not the way i see it, she's old, but Bismarck was a He-- Of a lot bigger then Her!
    Nikki
     

Share This Page