Question:

How did the Shah of Iran indirectly cause World War II ?

 

Wherever did you get this idea?

The designers of the Versailles treaty are those most commonly pointed at for indirectly causing WW2. Was he one of them?

 

I'm with Roel on this one. Where did this claim come from?

:smok:

 

Wrong, Hitler and National Socialism caused WW2.

 

maybe its a joke?

u know why did the chicken cross the road

 

Yes, and Japanese economic crisis. But indirectly?

 

Its not a joke or a trick question. The Shah was almost certainly directly responsible for the Munich Treaty and the german aggression against poland and played a major role in the fall of southeast Europe to the Nazis and the destruction of France in 1940. So what was the connection ?

4 Hints:

1. British Colonialism
2. Economic Diplomacy
3. The little Entente
4. CKD

Ive spent almost 2 years developing this theory... and its extremely well documented.

 

Oh? This I gotta see. And before I forget, what the heck is CKD?

 

CKD is a Czechoslovakian Arms manufacturer...

ill be posting later today

 

I don't think any one person caused a war that was influenced so much by national movements, national sentiments and ideas deeply felt by millions of people. World War II would have broken out at some point even without Hitler, I think, because it was Mussolini who made the first European move (1935, Abbessinia) and by then Japan had been at war for four years.

You can prove in this topic that the Shah of Iran played a role in the reasons for WW2, but to go as far as to say he (however indirectly) caused WW2 is something I will never belive.

 

I think generally speaking war is a result of greed, opression and other such tender human traits. No one specific event/person can be blamed for it.

 

The treaty at the end of WW I was a major factor, it palced Germany in a no win, and the rest of the world, in a no win situation.
However those that could profit from a second world war definitely played a larger role.

Some people call them rogue or the Illumminati, to give a title to the organization, but I believe this to be a misdirection. The Illumminati were the assassination wing of the Vatican; and I do not think the Vatican is behind that period's or todays problems.

So this out to be interesting to hear how the Shah caused WWI. I hope you can give us references so we can read the material as well.

Cheers!

 

The treaty at the end of WW I was a major factor, it palced Germany in a no win, and the rest of the world, in a no win situation.
However those that could profit from a second world war definitely played a larger role.

Some people call them rogue or the Illumminati, to give a title to the organization, but I believe this to be a misdirection. The Illumminati were the assassination wing of the Vatican; and I do not think the Vatican is behind that period's or todays problems.

So this out to be interesting to hear how the Shah caused WWI. I hope you can give us references so we can read the material as well.

Cheers!


k you guys are getting really close.

 

Maybe you've noticed the fact that we don't really believe you but are interested to hear how you are going to defend this bold statement. So please, present your case! Certainly we won't be guessing right within the next few years if it took you that long to consolidate the thesis...

 

Let's begin at the beginning.

Start with British colonial policy.

The British ruled the colonies on a "Divide and Rule" principle. This meant that they encouraged a multitude of individual factions to avoid nationalist leanings.

Whomsoever was willing to go along with british colonial policy was encouraged and armed by the british.


In addition all raw materials in the country were dminated by britain and industry was flat out discouraged. To build industry ya need basic machine tools, technical know how and a steady flow of industrial raw materials.

In the event a country ... such as Iran had no suitable raw materials then cash would be the only answer.

theres 3 kinds of cash in world trade.

National currency: This is used to pay local industry and employees within the country. If another country has national currency of your nation it can be used to buy "stuff" from your nation and is honored by your government.
The effectiveness of this cash can be altered thru negotioniating and EXCHANGE RATE between your country and the buyer.

if i say we do business at 1 dollar to 1 pound exchange rate.
1. another country with the same goods wanting the business could undercut me by offering a lower exchange rate and encouraging the trade to go there.
2. there are extenuating circumstances.
can my currency be used elsewhere to buy goods ?
if germany and the Uk were at war.
and germany and the UK both sell coal.

The price and quality are exactly the same.
who would you buy from ?
you would consider first whether the goods can arrive.. blockades etc..
now the country you are buying from will consider - WHERE CAN I SPEND THE MONEY ???

A nation like Iran has huge amounts of Oil... so iranian money is spendable all over the world.
german coal is subject to embargos and blockades .
british coal is backed by the pound and the resources of the entire commonwealth to choose purchases from.


So If germany has no iranian money and wants iranian oil. they need to either find a country that has something iran wants and get their currency.
or produce something iran wants so iran will want their currency and trade.

back to exchange rate. is irans price too high ? can it be bought elsewhere cheaper ?
can it be transported ?


the next method is called the "CLEARING ACCOUNT" basically a country buys as much it wants on credit and gives the other country a credit to buy anything they want from your country. no cash up front an ya can spend as much as ya want.


k weve determined.
1. National Currency.
2. Foreign exchange ( hard cash ) be it gold or tradeable foreign currency.
3. Clearing account


these are the basics of the econics that caused world war 2.

 

After the communist revolution the world became a very unsafe place place for democracy. The Comintern was formed with the specific and clearly defined intention of overthrowing all non communist governments by force of arms.

Naturally in neighboring countries like Iran, Poland, Japan, China etc...
this created huge tensions.

Poland and Japan responded by invaing russia. China was under attack by japan and fighting a simultaneous communist insurrection.

Iran was EXTREMELY unstable.
In order to stabilise Iran which at the time was the worlds largest oil producer and the source of almost all commonwealth oil ( details on this, the Brits were flat out raping the Iranians.. , selling themselves oil from british owned companies and taking a huge cut then selling manufactured goods to Iran at drastically inflated prices )

the British realised that to defend against comintern they would need to create a right ring NATIONALIST government in Iran and to that extent Shah Pahlavi was chosen and armed by the british.
He was a strongman and he ruled by the gun. Problem was he had no guns. The british did. and if the Shah didnt follow directions... the British simply threatened to stop the flow of guns and arm his enemies.

Its about this time that the Shah realised he needed a new source of weapons.

He set about industrializing Iran.. britiain wouldnt help cus they made a killing selling em manufactured goods. So they went to germany, germans sent in enginers and specialists and started developing an Iranian industrial capacity. He launche da huge national railroad project to tie the country together. he went to italy and bought ships to create a small navy and expanded and trained the army.

all with the intent of distancing himself from the british colonial yoke.
This is where CKD comes in... and the beginning of the end of Czechoslovakia.

 

Now im not going to go into a lot of detail on this at this point, but we need to look at the southeast europe agrictultural states, the versailles treaty forming the countries, the little entente and the balkan wars.. the Italian invasion of albania.

the league of nations sponsored a few questionalbe items at this point including the ceding of northern silesia to poland ( wonder why ?) and the economic blockade of italy after albania. Italy was a huge supporter of austrian indepence and totally dependent on imports of british coal. the net result was shifting italian dependence to german coal which was harder to transport and moving italy further away from allied interests and into the german camp. Thus another key player at munich was italy which had much to gain from expanded german export capacity.One of the most critical events was the shift of the pound to the gold standard which caused the downfall of the british government and brought in the labor party. the consquences to foreign trade were devastating.

the great depression hit these agricultural states harder than most.
coupled with aggresive nationalistic states, lack of cash, civil unrest and the threat of communism as well as german rearmament the balkans were transparent with fear.

they had no cash however to buy weapons.

britain and france had shifted their industries to consumer manufacture post depression in an attempt to reinvigorate industry and quiet civil unrest. this was at the expense of the arms industries in these countries so what little capacity they had was used for their own army and exceptional exports as a matter of foreign policy.. these exports were in small amounts and was usually outdated and second rate equipment. the czechs an germans were producing top rate weapons but germans exports were small due to rearming which drove the trade deficit up. the czechs were the only ones buying and selling in a timely fashion.

Chamberlain as Lord Exchequer was a solid believer in econimc protecionalism and high tariffs which pretty much destroyed trade with the balkans and baltic states.

the balkans tendency to overvalue their currency in foreign trade meant that agricultural products from overseas were much cheaper. so the allies simply ignored the problem ad kept trade to a trickle with the balkans.

When the Shah decided to go with czech arms he created the foundation of the czech armament export industry. czechoslovakia filled the void and sold not only arms - but top rate state of the art modern weaponry to the balkans and to Iran. without the shahs cash this wouldnt have been possible as can seen be seen from the meteoric rise of CKD which was expanded to fill the iranian contract. Now it became harder for the allies to pressure the balkan states into agreeing with their policies.

The balkans still had a huge surplus of agricultural products which couldnt be sold. germany was forced to buy balkan products at a loss then resell them at a loss to maintain the trade treaties and get access to more desirable goods and foreign exchange. so they would buy high on credit , then sell cheap for fast cash... all the while not paying back what was owed.

its like borrowing a 100 dollar bill and selling it for 50 dollars and then not paying back the 100... after a while it adds up an people dont want to lend you 100 dollars any more.

this is where germany and their "clearing method" came in.

germany bought al the more expensive stuff from the balkans on credit and made up the difference by overpricing its manufatured goods exports.
the czech arms were still the best and most easily accessed. germany ran up huge trade deficits with all the balkan states.

after the ceding of northern silesia failed to stop the exploding czech arms industry
the british realised the only way to stop the flow of arms was to dissolve the czech state.. which they did at munich.

the end effect was tha tthe balkan states which were totally pro allied now had to shift policy to become pro axis.

german influence was pervasive. making or breaking balkan governments and taking over their economies.

Food starved and DEEPLY INDEBTED germany now had the ammo to continue their rearmament. its food supplies were assured and the industrial capacity of the czechs helped them to create a battle worthy army years before a german industry on the verge of finacial collapse couldve done it.

youve got to realize that germany had no cash after versailles, no natural resources or raw materials.

the entire arms build up was done on credit and by 1939 there was simply no more credit. Hitler had 2 choices : stop re-arming and shift industry to produce consumer and export goods to pay off the trade balance and ensure the flow of resources and food. or simply attack and use the national plunder to continue feeding his war machine and pay his debts. there was no middle road for germany. Poland had never taken part in the clearing process and as such was an ideal victim.

the unique set of circumstances brought about by the expansion of CKD and the czech armamnets industry, british colonial foreign policy and the comintern and the allied economic protenism caused by the depression and the german clearing diplomacy all brought about a combination that spelled war in no uncertain terms. regardless of who was in charge or what their policies were something was going to blow.

so the czech arms export industry and the balkan dependence on it enabled hitler to re arm and supplied him with a base of weapons.
the arms industry was expanded based on the Iranian orders. If the shah hadnt created the huge export industry then the british wouldnt have tried to shut down czechoslovakia to protect their oil interests in iran. the first silesian partition was a warning to the czechs .. they persisted and chamberlain put a bullet in em. Italy got their coal, britain got their oil and germany got thei food and raw mmaterials. shutting down the czechs created the surplus hitler needed to pay off the balkans and continue the flow of goods and it also brought italy firmly into the german camp due to the coal embargo.

 

See the choking off of the flow of arms and the tendency to pit one against the other was the core of British foreign policy. Once the arms started pouring out of Czechoslovakia it gave impetus to the German War Industry and created an even larger demand for arms... the balkans sold themselves to the devil out of fear in part caused by the selling of Czechoslovakia by Britain and France.. which can be attributed to the British stance on Czech arms sales, that threatened their middle east oil interests, which in turn was fostered by the Iranian CASH arms purchases and their impetus on the Czech arms export industry. So yes.. out of fear of the Russians and his own internal enemies as well as his Nationalistic policies which were directed against Britain, the Shah destroyed a very fragile balance of power and created an arms race which Hitler exploited to the fullest and which enabled him to start an aggressive war.

Ive got tons of detail to back it up but the subject is so complex I'll have to resort to answering questions 1 at a time.

 

One silly question -
If the British had control of the Iranian oil companies, and were "flat out raping the Iranians", not to mention being the puppet master of the Iranian Shah, where the heck did the guy get the cash for huge arms imports?

 

lots of money my friend. The balkans were cash strapped and in desperate need of finished imports.. a silver dollar carried a lot of weight there. When yer talking about oil money yer talking huge quantities. If ya want the details on the British deals ill get em for ya but basically the british charged import tariffs on iranian oil... even though the brits owned the companies. the state oil agencies in iran got what was left after the tarrifs. it was maybe 20-30% of the gross. not much at all so the brits were paying themselves to buy iranian oil.


Iran was an agricultural economy.. so there wasnt a lot going out for raw materials and oil covered most of the imports as well as left em with a hefty pile of money. Ir5an was spending huge amounts on modernization, rail, arms and industrialization in the 30's