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Richeliu vs Bismarck vs KGV vs Vittorio Veneto

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by Blaster, Jan 18, 2007.

  1. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    I actually think you can (as most of these were mechanical and "errors in drill" problems) expect to do better even at the North Cape with other guns!
    The Mechanical problems suffered by Duke of York during the Battle of the North Cape included failures of the bridge flash tubes in the working chambers to close completely and the collapse of shell arresters in the lower hoist.

    Altough i do wonder how reliable the other Bb's were (what about Scharnhorst in this battle?)
     
  2. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    That Wiki article did talk about the quadruple turrets of the KGV class being a technical difficulty. But it did say the guns performed well, although I'm not completly trusting Wikipedia, as this article could have been posted by a lunatic who just likes the KGVs, factual as it seems. Does anyone here have any overall ratings?
     
  3. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    what is with your obsesion with the 14" guns of the kGV?
     
  4. Quillin

    Quillin New Member

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    Everybody has a major WW2 obsession on this forum. Blaster seem to have a 14" KGV gun obsession :)

    I know the problems on Wikipedia. A couple weeks i corrected (extended) an artice about the Italian M14 tank. 3 day's later the original lunatic changed it back to his summary (info almost nothing). And that guy is defenatly a lunatic. He promotes a medical drug on his profile.
    Bottom line, Wikipedia seems a very good page but it's like Blaster said, the fanatics just keep it changing to their version, making it an unobjective library.
     
  5. Notmi

    Notmi New Member

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    This British 14" reliability etc was recently argued at another forum.

    http://www.bobhenneman.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=308&start=30
    Discussion on first two pages is about reasons for choosing 14" guns (we already dealt it here), from page 3 onwards there is discussion about reliability. That link is directly to page 3.
     
  6. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    Sounds like the guns of the KGV's have developed a rep that isn't really accurate. A bit like those Shermans that supposedly burst into flames if you even looked at them too hard.

    Bottom line when they did go into action the KGV's did reasonably well. The only war loss, POW, was put into a position that no battleship ever built would have laughed off.
     
  7. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    And that aircraft attack. The 64,000 ton Yamato with a side armour belt 16 inches thick didn't come out of that one at Okinawa. Neither did Musashi, en route to Leyte Gulf.
     
  8. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    but remember that the POW was able to damage and slow down the bismarck, and this was crucial since one hit in the bismarck cut her fuel reserves and force capt lindenman and adm luthjens to reduce her top speed, i belive if that hit was not that serious the bismarck could reach the safe of the french ports in less time but this won't change the fate of her
     
  9. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    And if Lutjens hadn't sent that signal to his superiors, thus revealing his location, the British may have not found him.
     
  10. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    Yeah, really. Lutjens had shaken off the RN pursuit, yet somehow didn't believe that he had done so. Still, sending that message was inexcusable, just as his failing to top off BISMARK's fuel tanks before leaving Norway was also.
     
  11. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    Perhaps he was overconfident in Bismarck?
     
  12. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    And does anyone have an opinion on how the Colorado and Arizona class ships would do if I threw 'em in this mix too?
     
  13. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    Maybe if you started a new thread.
     
  14. CometFan

    CometFan Member

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    I really think the KGV class is the most under-rated Battleship class of II WW.
    Okay they were not the biggest, best-armed, best-armoured or best looking (for whats that is worth) ships of their age.

    But they were available in numbers when needed and they generally performed very well when in action.

    They provided better service to the RN than Bismarck,Tirpitz the two weak twins did for the the KM
     
  15. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    I would say Tirpitz service was incredible as it tied huge resources to it by just doing nothing!
    So altough actual service didn't mean much but by just laying in it's fjord's it cost the Allies huge amounts of men and material wich could have been used elsewhere.

    Weak twins wouldn't that be the Gneisenau and Scharnhorst?
     
  16. Quillin

    Quillin New Member

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    Yep, Scharny and Gneisy.
    Weak? :-? I don't know. Depends on the opponent. The plan was to give them 15 inch guns instead of 11 inch. IIRC, the 15" guns were never completed. And as Tiornu already posted earlier in this topic, the Twins got more armor then the Tirpitz/ Bismarck.

    Small question, purley hypothetic, what if the Twins got their 15inch guns? How good would they be? Obviously fast, well protected and well armed. So what would a duel between a Twin against a KGV give?
     
  17. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    Atleast they could do damage and the turrets wouldn't be so vunerable i guess...
     
  18. Notmi

    Notmi New Member

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    Well, adding heavier turrets wont make any good at their already marginal seakeeping.
    I'd say KGV still has an edge, althought not so wide as originally.
     
  19. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    I think a late-war KGV would take the win over an old Renown or Repulse.
     
  20. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    Given that the latter two are battlecruisers, with less armor protection, that is certainly possible. However, R and R might have enough of an edge in speed and maneuverability to overcome a KGV, if these advantages were used properly.
     

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