Shocking statistics of WWII

That would have made it so completely impractical and stupid that...that...that... :cry:

 

but true (for Hungary is sure... even our civilian deads are more...)

 

can you give me details on that, or the link you used.
I have doubts as in Hungary (in the same time) there was 500 German tanks and stugs...

 

I do not have definite numbers of tanks lost, but it was estimated to be between 500 and 800. For comparison, when the Russians began their winter offensive of January 1945, the Germans faced them with a total of only 1200 tanks.

Sorry, no links. This info is about entirely from books.

 

See my presentation:
http://nemedilaszlo.freeweb.hu/
Slide 3
(It is only tanks, no stugs, based on Jentz)

'44 December
Western front: 806 operational
Eastern front: 1219 operational (about 1/3rd in Hungary, in January it is 1/2nd)

 

Of the total production of armored fighting vehicles which came out of German assembly plants in November and December 1944, the Western Front received 2,277 while only 919 went to the East. As late as 5 January 1945 all the German armies on the Eastern Front possessed only twothirds the number of panzers employed in the Ardennes. German tank losses during the operation are unknown but appear to have been very high, probably as much from mechanical failure as from battle damage. For the 1,700 to 1,800 tanks and assault guns in Army Group B, there were only six tank repair companies. Even worse was the shortage of tank retrievers, and, after 23 December, the few available were extremely hard hit by air attack. The spare parts situation was so bad that new German tanks were cannibalized at a depot west of Koblenz.


The First and Third U.S. Armies had a full complement of medium tanks when the Germans struck, that is, 1,882 between them. During the last half of December the two armies lost a total of 471 medium tanks. These losses were partially made up when 21 Army Group released 351 Shermans which had been allocated for British use.


******************
The German order of battle for the period of 16 December-2 January was as follows: 1st SS, 2d SS, 9th SS, 12th SS Panzer Divisions; Panzer Lehr and 2d, 9th, 116th Panzer Divisions; 3d and 5th Parachute Divisions; 3d and 15th Panzer Grenadier Divisions; 9th, 12th, 18th, 26th, 62d, 79th, 167th, 212th, 246th, 272d, 276th, 277th, 326th, 340th, 352d, 560 Volks Grenadier Divisions; and the Fuehrer-Grenadier and Fuehrer Begleit Brigades.


http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/7-8/7-8_25.htm


hmm 8 Panzer divisions plus indigenenous tanks/AFV with the infantry

8X150= 1200
8X200= 1600

~1400? +++

(Detroyed and /or abandoned 500~ 700)


but 2/3 of 1800 is only 1,200 tanks in the east

ok 1800 in the west
and 1200 in the east

Total 3,000

then 25% is 750


close enough, I dunno

 

Thanks for that.

The order of battle is accurate to a divisional level but it fails to mention non-divisional armoured units such as the 150th Pz Bde or the 506th and 512th Schwere Panzer Abteilungen. These, and others, had a load of tanks between them as well, I'm not sure how many.

Oh, I've got a Christian Ankerstjerne on your post: the plural form of "Panzer" is just "Panzer", not "Panzers". If you want to use a German word, why not its proper German plural form?

 

Hmmm, just in the Hungarian region 1944 december (Armegruppe Sud):
1st pz div
3rd pz div
6th pz div
8th pz div
23rd pz div
13th pz div
24th pz div
1st Hungarian pz div
2nd Hungarian pz div

and 31st of december arrived IV.SS Pz Korps (Wiking and Totenkopf SS pz divs).

Maybe some of them not in the best shape but it is 9+2 pz divs and e.g. additional battalions e.g. the 503th Heavy Tank Battalion.



EDIT: not Armeegruppe but Heeresgruppe

 

Yes and I have another stat, that I don't really trust..or mabe incompleat.

I wonder what the truth is?

 

Percentage Of German Forces On The Eastern Front Each Year
Unit 1941 1942 1943 1944
Divisions 67% 75% 60% 57%
Troops 84% 74% 72% 40%
Aircraft 64% 65% 42% 45%


Many eastern divisions had been hollowed out, already..

I dunno

http://www.angelfire.com/ct/ww2europe/stats.html

I am not sure about these sources..

 

It goes to show you how little a unit name meant in late-war German armies. Most of these Panzer divisions I reckon were little more than a skeleton of their operational strength; I do know for a fact that while 6th Panzer army itself was intact when it was shipped to Hungary in January 1945, its divisions were of regimental size at best.

Even the units participating in the Ardennes offensive, which had recieved maximum reinforcements and replacements in equipment and manpower, were almost all below strength. However, sources differ on this, one claiming several units were stronger than they'd been for years while the other claims they were little more than a veteran officer corps with frighteningly few recruits as crew.

 

Try this

http://home.aol.com/nukeinfo2/

 

You've got to wonder how 617 would have fared had the Luftwaffe not been broken by this time?

 

This is what I have on Liberty and Victory ships

http://www.angelfire.com/in/shiphistory/libvicship.html

 

Ah ah, following the web site it says: 440 light tanks!

 

if your correct , it took almost 9 years to build a Tiger 1 , that can't be right.

 

Eh? What?

 

In the time it took to produce a Tiger I tank (over 100,000 men hours), approximately 30 to 40 T-34's can be produced (3,700 hours).

I guess this is the post that CSP was refering to, it's worth saying here that if you are going to refer back to the first post of a six page thread it's a really good idea to use the "Quote" facility so that people know what you're talking about and don't assume that it's a response to the preceding post...

CSP, "man hours" are different to actual hours.

Total hours would be the time taken to produce something from start to finish, from the moment the components begin production (Some may even take this further to point at which the ore is mined!) at the factory to the moment the finished product rolls off the lines.

A "Man Hour" represents one man working for one hour. Two men working for one hour each is two man hours, however they may work on the same project at the same time, so 2 Man Hours in this case equals 1 hour of total production time.

Taking something as complex as a tank, the chasis, armament, engine, tracks, wheels, turret, optics, etc could all be being built at the same time for assembly at a later point, so 100,000 man hours could easily equal 100 hours of actual time to produce a single unit.