Since there is still confusion in Florida...

I'm not forgetting it I just don't think it's particularly relevant.

Actually I think it's a very good analogy. For one thing why a nation breaks up doesn't seem to matter the fact that it has is what matters. Furthermore if session occured now it would in all likelyhood be peaceful and not because of a war. Indeed the CSA had a much better chance of becoming independent if they had avoided a war. But if you want an example of a recent (less than 100 years old) case of sessesion Eire is a pretty good example. For that matter so are the successor states to Yugoslavia.

Quite a bit different? In some ways yes, likely to affect recognition by foreign powers not so much.

 

For Gods sake....

America is a great and wonderful country. I was totally blown away by the vibrancy of the place when I visisted Denver, Colorado. It shook me to the core that a country like that could have such a unique history, and a people with such determination and drive to succeed.

And you guys are going to wreck all that good work with political squabbling. What a crying shame.

Slipdigit calls your country "Deeply divided". Well, folks, look at the bloody simliarities, for God's sake. More alike than different, and all that.

How can I put this?.....if you guys don't find a way to settle your differences, you'll drag the rest of us down in a global economic crisis the like of which we have never seen. It will make the Great Depression seem like a simple restructuring of the economy.

Don't care a darn what the rest of the world feels about Americans. If you have spent any time in the place, you know the essential lies that people like to propagate about 'Ugly Americans." Remind your critics of the many many MANY good things that have come out of the Great Republic. Keep doing this. Then start to remind yourselves as a people that you are already at the top of the tree, with many freinds overseas who wan't to see this continue. The number of people that want to see it fall are much, MUCH fewer.

For us Aussies, we will ALWAYS back the United States of America, because we remember the extreme generosity of 1941-1945. Count on it. And Aussies are not alone in feeling this way.

So, sit back, pat yourselves on the back, and remember, that we "Hold these freedoms to be self evident."......And that "Government OF the people, BY the people, and FOR the people, shall not perish from this earth."

 

I don't think there's any real danger of that. Indeed I suspect only about a quarter of those who sign the petition are serious about it and as I stated in the other thread I doubt every signiture has a warm body behind it.

The country is probably more polarized now than it has been since the 60's. That said I'm far from convinced that the loudest voices on either side really represent large percentage of Americans. Many are upset right now about the economy and thier are divided opinions as to the best way to get out of it. Much of the division will evaporate once the economy recovers which I believe will happen no matter which trail is followed (how long it takes may be significantly impacted though). That said I suspect there are some who would wish to keep things unsettled as it gives them a better stage.

In spite of the almost paralysis we've had in the last couple of years due to partizan bickering the economy is recovering. I think it will continue. More serious is what's happening in Europe and China IMO.

That said it does sometimes appear that "freedom of speach" has gone from a right to a requirement in some circules and some insist on demonstrating the truth of that old addage about silence.

 

Here is one of the funniest, and yet more eye-opening Op-Ed pieces I have run across concerning these "cry-babies" who didn't get their way in the election, and they are a really small group when you think about it.

Goto:

Bob Cesca: The Reality of Secession and Unicorns

 

I didn't see it as particularly funny. I do agree that it will never happen. I strongly suspect that there are significantly fewer real live people behind the signatures than the figure he gives. Furthermore I suspect a goodly number of those don't really want sessesion but are using the petition as a form of protest. Nothing wrong with that other than it's likely to be pretty ineffective but that's not necessarly a bad thing either considering what some of them want. I'd also like to see some documentation as to why he thinks it's illegal much less treason. Certainly looking at Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text I don't see any where in the constitution where signing a petition is considered an act of treason. I think he overlooks the biggest problem with it currently that is the vast majority of residents of those states don't want it. He correctly points to the economic problems and at least refers to some of the military ones pretty much neglects a number of serious political ones (how or would the states that left organize themselves for one).

I guess I don't see it as funny or eye poening or particularly well written. It does in some cases do a decent job of stating the obvious but that's about it.

 

You didn't think wishing for trolls and unicorns was funny? It is the act of secession, not petition signing which is being discussed.

 

Not particularly, why would it be? He was attempting to be cute and he failed.

The Constitution still doesn't define it as treason. Now if it violence is used in the attempt that could be considered treason but that's the means rather than the act itself. Of course to do so peacefully would at the very least require an act of Congress but that simply means you are multiplying two vanishingly small numbers together to get an even smaller probability of it happening.

 

"iwd" you don't think there would be any armed conflict involved in this proposition? There was none originally when the USSR broke up, but that was because of a 78% referendum vote to allow secession. You don't have anything like that occurring here. It is a non-issue, just whinning cry-babies who don't like the outcome of the election.

 

Of course not. There might be some among those who signed the petition that would be willing to result to violence but my guess is not many more than you could count on your digits.

Indeed, you are talking a fraction of a percent that even say they want it.

With that I agree.

That on the otherhand is probably a gross simplification. Certainly some who signed would fit that. Others are what is known around the internet as "Trolls". I.e. some others may have legitimate complaints and are using this as a vehicle to express them, I suspect there are also some who signed it just to make the opposition look bad. I may have missed a few catagories and the above are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It's roughly the equivalant of claiming Bush "stole" the election.

 

Bush didn't steal the first election, but the Supreme Court certainly handed it to him just to get the dang thing over with. Only two justices weren't Republican appointees on the panel which decided "who" would be President, Bryer and Ginsberg. Stealing is the right word, as the Florida recount was halted by the Supreme Court with Bush ahead by fewer than a thousand votes. Nobody knows who really won the Florida count, to this day.

 

Not really. Bush won every recount and it had gotten to the point where any additional recounts were unlikely to add any accuracy.

Not really. He won by the rules and then won every recount afterwards.

Yes we do. Bush won. Indeed I believe some of the recounts actually increased his lead and didn't include areas that would likely have increased it even more. A number of irregularities that would have hurt him are also convieneintly ignored by those claiming he "stole" the election. At least we don't here that garbage about the "butterfly" ballot being part of the plot much anymore.

 

found this in the "online" Time mag this morning, couldn't resist!