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SS Veterans march through Riga

Discussion in 'WWII Today' started by GRW, Mar 16, 2010.

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  1. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    If this is your stance then you clearly are missing the point I was trying to make. I was not talking about 'approving' nazism or any such thing, merely that many SS soldiers were still considered heroes, and although part of the 'Criminal Organistion' of the SS they were not criminals themselves. Therefore they deserve the title of hero just like any Red soldier gets a similar treatment dispite there criminal activities in the war, or even allied soldiers that killed and maimed German POW's are.

    It is not that at all, it is merely not trying to be one sided, not jumping to conclusions, not making stereotypical views based on the actions of many. Would you make similar posts about soldiers in the Red army being criminals and not deserving the title of hero?


    You are free to believe what you want and as you wish, but I speak nothing but the truth.

    Truth? the truth is simple, not every German is a Nazi, this is a fact, not every SS soldier wanted to be part of the Nazi party, as soon as you accept these facts, perhaps your posts regarding such issues will continue to be informative and not needless attacks on any member of this forum regardless of their views and opinions, you should show the same respect that others here show you.
     
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  2. Hilts

    Hilts Member

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    If I'm reading the posts correctly, for a Latvian, or Lithuanian to fight the Soviets, gained him a lot of 'Merits' with his people. The fact that it was done for the Nazi SS, today at least, seems to generate few 'De-merits'.

    I'm not an expert and I don't have any documents that I can refer to, so this is my perception only.

    Actions by the two sides on The Eastern Front were appallling. Two wrongs don't make a right. The torrent of violence unleashed by the Russians as they took Berlin is appalling but let's not forget 1941/42.

    That the Waffen SS were fine combat soldiers is not in doubt. They had their equals in other armies but I don't think anyone performed better.

    Lidice. Oradour Sur Glane and others are a reminder of Nazi atrocities. I think it pertinant, that after Arnhem, the treatment handed out to the captured airbone troops, by the SS was worthy of comment because of how well they were treated, speaks volumes.

    Do I accept that not every SS soldier committed a war crime? Of course I do. But I do not accept that only a few committed the crimes. I can understand losing control in the heat of battle or in it's aftermath but to wake up, eat breakfast and then drive out to Oradour Sur Glane with a premeditated plan to liquidate the village? That is in another league. That is the view of the SS I hold. That and the camps. Others too, I believe hold these views. Perhaps easy for us as we were neither occupied by Stalin or Hitler.

    But I do not buy into the tale that the majority of SS men never did any wrong. Not by a long way.
     
  3. Heinrich

    Heinrich Member

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    Oh boy ... Being a mod youre supposed to correct others with a unhealthy worldvision making nazi propaganda...I seriously doubt you can .
     
  4. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    This is my last post in this matter - any more would really be a waste to the post count.

    Exactly Mehar,

    and now please take a deap breath and try to think very hard about who helped the Nazis to intimidate, and to make themselves feared in order to controll a majority in Germany that was against the Nazis? especially not just before the election but in the following 12 years of the Nazi terror-rule in Germany and any other country.
    I will give you a hint, it starts with an S and ends with an S ;)

    This forum takes pride in forwarding that it sees itsself as a database for students who want to inform themselves about WWII. :rolleyes:??

    And we even have Moderator's who after 10 years of this forum existance - defend and forward a viewpoint that is totally out of reasoning and facts of history - and can't even comprehend towards the fact that the SS was declared internationally as a criminal organization - unbelievable.

    In 30 years the same mentality offspring of people will discuss about the innocence of those 911 Arabs who held the carpet cutter knife, those who flew the plane, those who made the planing and the guy who simply joined to defend his country against America and just happen to drive the whole buch to the Airport.

    And because "he" was just the driver (Oh yeah later he told everyone that if he had not joined the 911 unit that his family would have been beheaded) he and many other drivers can participate in the 2040-911 Arab freedomfighters reunion - because not all Taliban and Al Queida were terrorists - some just happend to join as "Soldiers" to defend Afghanistan and fight the American and European infidels and Imperialistic pigs.

    -this forums moderation in this thread is getting absurd-

    Tomcat, please show me such an order or proof where SS men's families, were send to a concentration camp due to their refusal of orders directed at killing Jews.

    Maybe some people here should start to get some books about the SS in regards to its political background and motivation - and it's orgainzational structure very fast. Besides luring for books, literature or PC games, that go into "SS uniforms, them dandy looking cammo smogs, weapons and equipment - those fancy medals they had and aces of SS warriors aka Wittmann and co.

    The gathered knowledge from the above "luring research aids" then mount into the following statement:

    I do sincerely hope that no school boys are collecting and enhancing their knowledge about WWII from this thread and a Mod's thoughtless statements.

    Regards
    Kruska
     
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  5. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Hiyas, to get back to a Q asked yesterday by a dear friend-Those W-SS Vets who marched through Riga should have the right to do so-BUT-and this but is as big as a Rhinos but(t) only if those vets who did the march and such-never did any war crimes-unlike the scum who murdered those Brits PWs, those who murdered the Ami PWs and those who senselessly murdered hundreds fo thousadns of Russian PWs as well as the millions of Jews and other minorities.

    Rest assurred, Remy did not side with those-only with the ones who did their duty by fighting for their country ;-))

    Hope this splains it for all? ;-))
     
  6. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    Hello Carl,

    I will PM you back on this one

    Regards
    Kruska
     
  7. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    That's all Folks
     
  8. Heinrich

    Heinrich Member

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    Thats all folks? I think you guys are taking a p#ss on ww2 and europe in general .
    No shame and no respect whatsoever ...clean your keyboards !
     
  9. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

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    I never said they didn't, infact I've argued the fear, intimidation, etc aspects of the Nazi's rise to eternity and back again. What I have said is while the S.S. is a criminal organization but that not all members were criminals. I refuse to put a number on it simply because I don't know. But people like Carl's friend Remy, Ernst Barkmann, Graz Schwarzenegger (who was subject to a second independent investigation by the Simon Westhall center, they found him innocent as did the Allies originally), etc are the type of people I refer to. I am by no means defending those who did wrong during the war no matter what side or flag they flew under, to this day I still support the ongoing trials assuming they are conducted fairly and adequately.

    Similarly, there are people referenced in the original news post that claim they are only there to honor their dead comrades and the experiences they shared. If that is sincerely the reason I don't see anything wrong with that.

    As an aside to posters int his thread, Tomcat is a mod but he also has his views on the matter, there is no need to attack him just because they differ from yours or others own views. His posts to my knowledge haven't denied anything but are simply saying you should tarr everyone with the same brush.
     
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  10. Heinrich

    Heinrich Member

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    The 'opinion ' as some of you call it is a crimininal offense said in public in Europe ..FIY .
     
  11. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    You guy's simply don't get it do you?

    What makes you guy's think that the SS was declared a criminal organisation? only because they murdered Jews?

    That is one part of it, the fact that they represented the Nazi system as such is the cause for the verdict.

    Now what is the Nazi system and the SS for you PC games and cammo uniform admirers?
    Here have a look and educate yourself:

    And according to you guys - those non tried SS fellows were just soldiers right? not tried does not mean innocent or not guilty

    And that is only Germany - those in Estonia were propably knitting socks for their grandmothers??? besides fighting communists.

    So the SS is an internationally condemed criminal organisation - and members of criminal organisations simply have no right to march as such in public.
    And therefore I couldn't give a F#ck if one of them was innocent or not - there is simply juristically and in regards to humanity absolutly no right for these people to pose as soldiers that fought for their country - becaause they fought for the F#cking NAZIS in the first place.

    And if one of them proves to be innocent, he should still be able to aquitt what the SS was. And thank God that he wasn't hanged on the next tree.

    And certainly I will not tollerate a Moderator who can't even understand that.

    You guy's got it now?
     
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  12. sniper1946

    sniper1946 Expert

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    here here andy, too many dont understand enough about the past, but spout it! as if they do? and seeing the comments in this thread only goes to prove? more need to learn on this sensative part of history, not just the parroted area's of this subject matter...ray..
     
  13. Heinrich

    Heinrich Member

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    Its not that simple Ray ...pretended 'ignorance' on a forum like this having sooo many resources is an utter insult to all of us .. I stand firmly behind Andy here . Sofar i cant really see people picking up the deeper message too ,would have expected a lot more comments on this thread from our other rogues instead of just those refusing to think.
     
  14. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    Hello Heinrich,

    "pretended ignorance or sheer stupidity = you hit the nail, and no matter which - for both you will go to prison in Europe. Only the harshness of the verdict might differ.

    I just love it - people terming Germans as Nazis whenever the chance arrises - digging and graving to bla,bla about the holocaust but at the same time start to become defensive if those dandy cammo wearers are involved.

    Quote from our Mod's:

    Well if not for five of us FFZ guys, participating in this WWII topic - any FFZ topic from Sniper got more attention and posts - Snip don't get me wrong I am not jealous ;)

    Regards
    Kruska
     
  15. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

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    Is this directed at me? I would assume so since I was the only one who responded after your original post. If that is indeed the case, I think you've misunderstood something, please re-read my last post.
     
  16. Totenkopf

    Totenkopf אוּרִיאֵל

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    If simply the Latvian government allowing a globally condemned organisation to have a public march is what is getting you guys so angry, I can understand that totally, heck I totally agree that this approach isnt the wisest on their part; I personally think that a remembrance ceremony for Latvians collectively who fought the Soviets would make more sense to do then this.
     
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  17. Heinrich

    Heinrich Member

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    Spot on TK , thanks .
    (run outta salutes for today ?)
     
  18. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    Yes it is, amongst other posters

    you still don't understand - please read my post again - and then read your previous post!!!

    If you were member of a criminal organisation - then that means = you were member of a criminal organisation, and members of criminal organisations do not get to march in public - not in Europe and over my dead body in Germany!

    Understood now?

    Regards
    Kruska
     
  19. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

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    For members was it not guilt by association instead of a full on labeling which would result in trials, jail time, death, etc?
     
  20. Heinrich

    Heinrich Member

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    No it was the whole SS...except for most of the ahnenerbe dudes who were seen by the USA as unharmfull for reasons even beyond my wildest imagination ...
     
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