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Stalin's Secret War Plans!

Discussion in 'Prelude to War & Poland 1939' started by Spaniard, May 13, 2010.

  1. ULITHI

    ULITHI Ace

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    I don't know, I have a hard time believing that he had absolutely no ideas of taking back territory in the west, at some point.

    This is "Mr. Versailles" we are talking about! Common blood belongs to a common Reich, yada yada yada. Would it be going too far to suggest that Herr Hitler might make Strasbourg the new Danzig someday?
     
  2. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    The OKW might have been "dusting off" the Schlieffen Plan, and Hitler may not have made "definite plans" for his war against the west, but his intentions and opinion of both Great Britain and France had been published.

    But since he was a creature of "habit" when it came to his aims for a new world order, they shouldn’t be ignored even in a "what-if". As per Great Britain (Hitler always called it England) he had written in Mein Kampf, in the mid-twenties that:

    "...Only children could have thought that they could get their bananas in the 'peaceful contest of nations' by friendly and moral conduct and constant emphasis on their peaceful intentions, as they so high-soundingly and unctuously babbled; in other words, without ever having to take up arms.

    "No: if we chose this road, England would some day inevitably become our enemy. It was more than senseless-but quite in keeping with our own innocence-to wax indignant over the fact that England should one day take the liberty to oppose our peaceful activity with the brutality of a violent egoist."

    "...The talk about the 'peaceful economic' conquest of the world was possibly the greatest nonsense which has ever been exalted to be a guiding principle of state policy." (Mein Kampf p.143)

    And then later he opined that; "…on this point we must achieve full clarity: The inexorable mortal enemy of the German people is and remains France." (Mein Kampf p.619)

    While Hitler may or may not have had fully developed "plans" for the western offensive explicitly, he always was going to turn on the western nations as soon as he felt strong enough to do so.
     
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  3. Triple C

    Triple C Ace

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    I distinctly recall after Czechoslovakia, Britain and France told Hitler to consider himself at war if he attacked Poland.

    It is hard for me to believe there is any doubt on Hitler's part that France and Britain would fight him. On the lack of plans: Could it be that OKH was too busy planning the campaign they had in hand? Furthermore, it took quite a bit of effort and luck for Hitler to push Manstein's plan. Is it possible that there was no plan b/c the conservative staff officer believed that dusting off the old plan was good enough?

    Germane
    –adjective
    1. Closely or significantly related; relevant; pertinent.
     
  4. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the information on 'Germane'(one is never to old to learn something new:);))
    I think that Hitler was convinced that the Western warnings were only bluff:they could not help Poland :there was no help to Poland before the German attack,nor during the German attack .
    About the plan :I think it is very simple :if there was no plan in 1939(!) for a war against Britain and France,there was no intention for waging a war against Britain and France in 1939(!). Later:maybe or probably,but this is only speculating .
     
  5. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Well,I think people are attaching to much importance on what Hitler was writing in the mid-twenties :he was also slavering :D a lot about the judeo-bolchevist danger,but that did not prevent him to sign a treaty with the judeo-bolchevist enemy .
    I remember,when reading (trying to read :D) Mein Kampf (a lot of BS :D),that he attacked the prewar German government for its policy of challenging Britain .He was holding Britain in high esteem and Britain was for him a natural ally (see his talking after Dunkirk). When Ribbentrop was appointed ambassador in Britain, he said :you mission is a treaty(an alliance) with Britain .
    When you are looking at Mein Kampf,you will find proofs for hostility to Britain,and proofs for friendship with Britain
     
  6. ULITHI

    ULITHI Ace

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    Ribbontrop, when at a private meeting with Churchill in 1937, stated that "Britain should give Germany a free hand in the East of Europe".

    When Churchill responded that the British government would not agree to this, Ribbontrop turned away quickly and said "In this case, war is enevitable". (The Gathering Storm p. 223)

    Robbentrop didnt do a very good diplomatic job! They may not have wanted war at the time, but they were darn well ready to fight just in case! :D
     
  7. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    About Stalin's secret war plans:there are two possibilities (I am reasoning like Hitler:D:mad:)
    a) there were no secret war plans :personally I think they existed
    b) there were secret war plans :if so,that's not proving that Stalin had the INTENTION to attack Hitler(in the cold war ,US had plans for a war with Russia and a lot of other countries:that is no proof that they had the intention to attack Russia ,and I think the Pentagon has plans for a war with Mexico,China,Japan .......).On the other hand..,it COULD be (but we will never know:cool:)that after the diplomatic rupture with Germany(during the visit from Molotow at Berlin )and the build-up of the Wehrmacht in the east,that Stalin was considering the danger of a German attack(Stalin was a very suspicious man)and1) he was taking some precautions(reinforcing his army with 57 divisions in june 1941)2)he was playing with the possibility,or considered the possibility of a preemptive attack on Germany,before the Germans could attack him :that's the thesis of H.Magenheimer in "Hitler's war ". Personally,I am not convinced:I should like to see more proofs .
     
  8. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Soviet Armed Forces in 1939
    Strength and organisation of the Red Army, Red Air Force and Red Fleet

    During 1939-40, the Soviet armed forces were undergoing a period of transition. New weapons and tactical ideas were being developed, but misguided and often stultifying central control meant that there was little sense of initiative or responsibility, and important advances in any sphere were often left in isolation. The excellent progress made in tank construction, for instance, was counterbalanced by the absence of an effective radio-communication system, without which tanks were severely restricted.

    The Soviet Union placed great reliance on cavalry because of vast distances, poor road and rail communications and the inability of Soviet industry to provide vehicles for all of such a huge army.

    The Soviet Union was divided into 13 military districts and 2 military commissariats. The Army was essentially a standing army which was run by professional cadre, but it relied on conscription for the mass of its personnel. Men were liable for military service for a period of 22 years from the age of 20 to 41.The peacetime strength of the army was estimated at 1,800,000 men, while mobilised strength could be as high as 11,000,000. The baleful influence of Stalin over the Soviet armed forces during the 1930s culminated in the purges of 1938 which decimated the officer corps. Almost inevitably, the most able and outspoken officers were destroyed by the purges and this was a significant factor in the poor performance of the Red Army in the Winter War against Finland in 1939. It has been estimated that Soviet casualties were about 200,000 men during this short campaign. Basic Red Army units:

    Rifle Division
    Cavalry Division
    Heavy Tank Brigade
    Light Tank Brigade ​


    Total units
    110
    (including 23 Territorial divisions)
    44
    4
    21


    Infantry regiments
    3 with 2,900 officers and men each
    2 motorised rifle battalions
    (total aprox. 1,900 officers and men)
    2,745 officers and men
    2,745 officers and men

    Cavalry



    regiments
    -​



    4
    -
    -​



    Total men
    19,000​



    ?
    ?
    ?​



    Machine guns
    417​



    (174 heavy 7.62mm Maxim, 243 light 7.62mm Degtyares)
    ?
    ?
    ?​



    Mortars
    100+​



    (50 to 120mm)
    ?
    ?
    ?​



    Howitzers and Fieldguns
    100​



    (12 x 152mm, 28 x 122mm, 42 x 76mm, 18 infantry guns)​

    aprox. 50
    (76mm)
    46 guns, self-propelled or moved by tractors
    46 guns, self-propelled or moved by tractors​



    Anti-tank guns
    72​



    (45mm)
    ?
    ?
    ?​



    Tanks
    22 T-26, 16 T-37 ​



    64
    (BT or armoured cars)
    136 T-28 (one Brigade with 2/3 T-35s), 37 BT, 10 flame-thrower tanks
    278 BT or 267 T-26 ​



    Lorries and tractors
    ?​



    ?
    521
    521​
    Armoured fighting vehicles of the Red Army 1939: ​
    Armored fighting vehicles
    Inventory​



    T-27
    400​






    T-37
    aprox. 2,400​






    T-38
    aprox. 1,200 ​






    T-18M
    aprox. 400 ​






    T-26
    aprox. 9,500 ​






    BT
    aprox. 5,300 ​






    T-28
    488​






    T-35
    aprox. 80 ​






    Total
    aprox. 19,768 ​



    Armoured Car Strength of the Red Army 1939: 2,594
    Armoured Car Strength of the Red Army 1940: 4,819
    [​IMG]
    Soviet infantry with a BT-7 tank during the Mongolian fighting against Japan in 1939.
    Order of Battle against Finland:
    Army
    Location
    Rifle Divisions
    Tank Brigades ​



    7 Army Karelian Isthmus, West
    12​



    5​



    13 Army Karelian Isthmus, East
    8​



    1​



    8 Army North of Lake Ladoga
    6​



    (155, 139, 75, 56, 18, 168 Division) ​




    9 Army Karelian (in the 'Waist')
    5​



    (122, 88, 163, 44, 54 Division) ​




    14 Army Petsamo (Arctic)
    1​



    (104th Division) ​

    Red Air Force
    Throughout the 1920's and 1930's the Soviet Government made enormous efforts to build up a large modern air force, but the difficulties in finding suitable designs and the machines and materials to mass produce aircraft were enormous. To overcome the lack of pilots and mechanics the government poured money into the voluntary organisation Osoaviakhim (Society for the Support of Defence, Aviation and Chemical Defence). Soon after its formation in 1927 it had a membership of three million which had grown to 13 million by 1936. Aero clubs were set up to provide pilots, mechanics and parachutists, and until 1940 all Red Air Force volunteers came from this source. Shortages of instructors, training aids and aircraft meant that the standard attained was very low, however, and it was finally decided to select Air Force recruits from the annual military draft. Between 1935 and 1937, 3,576 aircraft, including a large proportion of four-engined bombers, were produced, but as the numbers increased so effectiveness decreased because the technical standard of the aircraft industry was falling behind developments in more advanced industrial nations.

    The Red Air Force had its first practical experience in the Spanish Civil War and this resulted in certain organisational and operational changes, but it was the traumatic experience of the Winter War against Finland (in which some 1,000 Soviet aircraft were lost) that really showed up the alarming shortcomings in training, tactics and equipment. Red Air Force commanders were not ignorant of these defects but the purges of 1937-1938, which removed many senior commanders, meant that the remedies undertaken were not necessarily the most effective. The Air Force of the Red Army (VVS-RKKA) was divided into two basic components. The first was the Air Force of the Red Army which consisted of fighter and ground attack regiments under the direct control of a Military District (later Front). The second component was the Long-Range Bomber Force which was at the disposal of the State Commissariat of Defence for tactical deployment on any front when necessary.

    In April 1939 a thorough re-organisation within the Air Force took place. The largest formation was now the air division, which comprised between four and six air regiments (formerly brigades). Each regiment consisted of about 60 aircraft with additional reserve planes (usually about 40 aircraft).

    There were three types of Air Regiment:
    bomber regiments with four squadrons of 12 aircraft each;
    fighter regiments with four squadrons of 15 aircraft each;
    ground attack regiments with four squadrons of 15 aircraft each.
    The squadron was divided into wings of three aircraft. The Air Force attached to a Military District or Front included a number of fighter and bomber regiments, while mixed regiments with both bomber and fighter components were attached to army corps, which also retained their own reconnaissance squadrons.


    important aircraft types in 1939
    number of planes​



    Beriev MBR-2 flying boat
    aprox. 1,500 built 1933-42 ​






    Illyushin II-4 bomber
    1,528 built 1937-39 ​






    Polikarpov I-15 fighter
    aprox. 1,000+ ​






    Polikarpov I-16 fighter
    aprox. 5,000 ​






    Tupolev SB-2 bomber
    aprox. 6,000 built 1936-1941 ​






    Tupolev TB-3 heavy bomber
    800 built 1931-1939 ​



    [​IMG]
    The most important fighter of the Red Air Force at this time was the Polikarpov I-16 Rata. Though this Type 24 is in Russian summer camouflage it is wearing winter landing gear. The skis retracted flush under the fuselage.
    Red Navy
    As a land power the Soviet Union did not look upon the Red Navy's role as a strategic one. Its main tasks, therefore, were the patrolling of territorial waters, the protection of shore installations, the support of land forces, and the provision of vessels and personnel for amphibious operations.
    The strength of the whole Red Navy in 1939 was estimated at 40,000 men of whom 22,000 were serving at sea.
    The fleet involved in the war against Finland was the Baltic Fleet. At the beginning of the war the fleet was operationally subordinated to the Leningrad Military District, and comprised the following:
    2 battleships
    2 cruisers
    21 destroyers and torpedo boats
    52 submarines
    41 motor topedo boats
    13 minelayers, minesweepers and auxiliaries
    2 escort and patrol boats.
    Added to this were the small craft of the Lake Ladoga Flotilla.
    Total Soviet Forces against Finland:
    600,000 men, 32 divisions, 1,200 tanks
    696 planes divided between the armies and 300 more in Estonia
    2 battleships, 1 cruiser, 9 destroyers, 16 small warships, 11 submarines deployed by the Baltic and Arctic Fleets


    [​IMG]

    Google Image Result for http://ww2total.com/WW2/History/maps/Finland-Winter-War-px800.jpg
     
  9. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    1) Churchill wasn't a member of the British government:cool:
    2)In 1938 ,Britain was giving Germany a free hand in Eastern Europe
    3)Appeasement was not some thing invented by Chamberlain,but it started immediately after WWI,when Britain refused to guarantee the frontiers in Eastern Europe;there never was a Locarno for East Europe.
    4) Germany was willing to dominate Eastern Europe :the question was:would Britain allow it? If not,'In this case,war is inevitable '.
    5) I think most people will agree that Ribbentrop was no good as ambassador,but I don't think that it was influencing the events .
     
  10. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Russia In World War 2

    The great war plan, preparations, collapse, and recovery - a revised view

    The history of Russia in World War 2 is still being revised. In the first decades after World War 2, the historiography of Russia's part in the war in between 1939 and the end of 1941, was largely based on a combination of the strictly censored Russian state propaganda's version and of what was known outside Russia, which was then closed behind the "Iron Curtain" of the Cold War.

    Eventually, two new factors provided new insights and new proofs which enable a revision that let us get much closer to the truth.


    Expansionist Ideology - While Hitler's Nazi ideology publicly officially and repeatedly declared since the 1920s that its goal is nothing short of global domination by force, the Communist Soviet Union declared the goal of global conquest by force, but it started even earlier. The Soviet Red Army's official defining goal is the same. Not national defense but rather global conquest by aggressive global war to bring Communism to power everywhere.

    Although they were natural enemies for centuries and fought each other so many times, including in the first World War, the Communist Russia made an allegedly irrational secret deal with post-WWI Germany in 1922, even before Hitler's era, in which in return for secretly providing nothing more than training grounds and facilities for the German military to keep its shape and further develop advanced military technology and tactics in total violation of the peace treaty imposed by the western countries, Russia in return got direct access to the best and latest tactics and military technologies of its most capable past and future enemy, the German military, which was indeed the most efficient and most technologically advanced military force in the world then. The mutual strategic interest of the two enemies created a secret deal that enabled a dramatic improvement of Russian military doctrines and technology, and supported a recovery of German military power after WWI, which was later turned against the western powers, as Communism predicted and wanted.

    Russia In World War 2
     
  11. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Emergence of the U.S.S.R.


    The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was established as a federation on Dec. 30, 1922 and the New Economic Policy started which installed the community (called soviets) as owners of land and property. The death of Lenin on Jan. 21, 1924, precipitated an intraparty struggle between Joseph Stalin, general secretary of the party, and Trotsky, who favored swifter socialization at home and fomentation of revolution abroad. Trotsky was dismissed as commissar of war in 1925 and banished from the Soviet Union in 1929. He was murdered in Mexico City on Aug. 21, 1940, by a political agent. Stalin further consolidated his power by a series of purges in the late 1930s, liquidating prominent party leaders and military officers. Stalin assumed the premiership May 6, 1941.

    Soviet foreign policy, at first friendly toward Germany and antagonistic toward Britain and France and then, after Hitler's rise to power in 1933, becoming anti-Fascist and pro-League of Nations, took an abrupt turn on Aug. 24, 1939, with the signing of a nonaggression pact with Nazi Germany. The next month, Moscow joined in the German attack on Poland, seizing territory later incorporated into the Ukrainian and Belarussian S.S.R.'s. The war with Finland (1939-40) added territory to the Karelian S.S.R. set up March 31, 1940; the annexation of Bessarabia and Bukovina from Romania became part of the new Moldavian S.S.R. on Aug. 2, 1940; and the annexation of the Baltic republics of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania in June 1940 created the 14th, 15th, and 16th Soviet Republics. The illegal annexation of the Baltic republics was never recognized by the U.S. for the 51 years leading up to Soviet recognition of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania's independence on Sept. 6, 1991.


    The Soviet-German collaboration ended abruptly with a lightning attack by Hitler on June 22, 1941, which seized 500,000 square miles of Russian territory before Soviet defenses, aided by U.S. and British arms, could halt it. The Soviet resurgence at Stalingrad from Nov. 1942 to Feb. 1943 marked the turning point in a long battle, ending in the final offensive of Jan. 1945. Then, after denouncing a 1941 nonaggression pact with Japan in April 1945, when Allied forces were nearing victory in the Pacific, the Soviet Union declared war on Japan on Aug. 8, 1945, and quickly occupied Manchuria, Karafuto, and the Kuril islands.


    Russian History, from the early beginnings to modern Russia


    Stalin deports Poles from Russian occupied Poland

    The 10th February 1940 saw the first wave of four mass deportations of Poles settled in Eastern Poland to the far reaches of Siberian Russia. This was a well established Soviet method of dealing with ethnic groups seen as potentially troublesome to the regime. Polish nationals were seen as ‘enemies of the people’ simply because they had a distinct national identity. Stalin’s answer was to murder the officer class in the forests of Katyn and elsewhere, and the wholesale resettlement of tens of thousands of Poles:


    Stalin deports Poles from Russian occupied Poland


    Case Study The Katyń Massacres of 1940

    Piotr H. Kosicki, The Katyń Massacres of 1940, Online Encyclopedia of Mass Violence, [online], published on 8 September 2008, accessed 19 May 2010, URL : The KatyÅ„ Massacres of 1940 - Online Encyclopedia of Mass Violence, ISSN 1961-9898

    FREE PDF

    http://www.massviolence.org/IMG/article_PDF/The-Katyn-Massacres-of-1940.pdf


    THE KATYN MASSACRE:

    AN ASSESSMENT OF ITS SIGNIFICANCE AS
    A PUBLIC AND HISTORICAL ISSUE
    IN THE UNITED STATES AND GREAT BRITAIN, 1940-1993

    http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic...i/special.studies/katyn.massacre/katynlrc.txt


    On 1 September 1939, Nazi Germany and Slovakia invaded Poland, and in the wake of this the Soviet Union declared on 17 September 1939 that the Polish government was no longer in control of its country and that any diplomatic agreements were thus null and void. On the same day, the Red Army invaded Poland from the east, in accordance with the "Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact." Meanwhile, Britain and France, pledged by the Polish-British Common Defence Pact and Franco-Polish Military Alliance to attack Germany in the case of such an invasion, demanded that Germany withdraw. On 3 September 1939, after it failed to do so, France, Britain, and most countries of the British Commonwealth declared war on Germany but provided little military support to Poland other than a French attack into the Saarland.[16] They took little other significant military action during what became known as "The Phoney War," and this has been referred to as the "Western betrayal."[17]

    Source WIKKI

    Katyn massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    An Then Many state that Russia in all of this was just attacking out, in a defencive Posture moving closer to the German Boarders! I don't think So More like a country ready as willing to go to War when the opportunity is Right or was in their favor is more like it. And before Stalin could build Up all his forces Hitler caught Stalin with his pants down and stuck it to him.


    Does anybody wonder why After Germany Invaded, Stalin went into Shock and was not seen or heard from for 5 days?
     
  12. Triple C

    Triple C Ace

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    LJAD,

    If you mean Hitler did not discount Western non-interference completly when he invaded Poland in September, I might not object. I remain incredulous to the idea Hitler was surprised to get a war, though:

    In so far as analytical writing is concerned, I distrust Wiki. But those are hard facts and dates. Did Hitler ignore those political developments when he invaded Poland? If so, it would have been a consumate failure
     
  13. Triple C

    Triple C Ace

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    Spaniard,

    Please stop posting massive material. If you have read the sources, you would know which passages you should quote and you present your case instead of copy and pasting entire websites.

    If Stalin was planning an offensive, why was Stalin's best offensive formations, the lavishly equipped elite mechanized corps concentrated in Ukraine, behind a most formidable natural barrier, the Carpathian Mountains, instead of Poland, the classic avenue to invade Germany? Have you looked at the troops Stalin moved to Poland? Border guards, NKVD troops, rifle divisions--the forces in Poland were not even in defensive posture. they were on occupation & purge duty.


    That's absurd. Do you understand? Up to the last moment Stalin was telling his border troop commanders that the Germans were merely provoking Russia and to use restraint. If he had plans to invade Germany, there should have been a flash of recognitition that the Germans got the drop on him, instead of utter surprise and shock.

    I suggest you to seek the reason for Stalin's disappearance in those five days in the massive losses incurred, in addition to the surprise that the Germans broke faith too soon, more soon than expected.

    It was the Nazi excuse that they were saving Europe from Bolshevism. It's propaganda, nothing more.
     
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  14. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Well,Hitler was reasoning from an other angle:eek:n 31 march 1939 ,Chamberlain wrore an assurance to the Poles:If the independence of Poland was threatened,Britain and France would at once lend Poland all the support in their power .
    This was a warning to Germany .But,this was all.For a warning to be dissuasive,some thing should be follow:
    common staff talks between France,Britain and Poland :there were none.
    military aid :no bomb of rifle went to Poland
    financial assistance :poland got not even a penny
    sending a symbolic force to Poland (2 batallions and a RAF squadron):no one in Britain who was even dreaming of it .
    Let's compare with the signing of the NATO treaty:
    no common staf talks between US and its European allies,no military aid,no financial aid,no US reinforcements to Europe;I don't think Stalin would be impressed;he would think :eek:nly bluf. So did Hitler .
    Why was Britain giving the guarantee to Poland (France was even not consulted )?
    1) domestic reasons :after the humiliation of Prague,the government had to do something to reassure parliament and public opinion(and no to lose the elections of 1940:cool:)
    2)because they were thinking,that after the British lion had roared,Hitler would be frightened and a good boy in the future.
    But,what ,IMHO,is unexplicable ,is that nobody was thinking on the eventuality that Hitler would not be a good boy in the future and yet attack Poland .Maybe they were afraid to face reality and they were practizising an ostrich-policy ;)
     
  15. marc780

    marc780 Member

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    When Hitler started his moves toward war in 1938, i think few English leaders had an illusions about what they were about to face. The Nazi rearmament from 1933 on, and Hitler's fire-brand talk about the French, the Poles, and every other enemy real or perceived of Germany had not gone unnoticed. Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler was not done out of stupidity, or naivete', but probably because in 1938 and well into 1939, the British simply were not ready for war -and Chamberlain knew it. The British "Chain home" radar warning network, the first of its kind in the world, was not yet complete. The Spitfire fighter was only just coming on line in significant numbers and English industry was only beginning to crank up for war. But by the time Hitler invaded Poland, England was much further along in being ready to face Hitler in a world war then they had been in 1938 and well in 1939.

    While England and France signed the agreement to help defend Poland, there was in reality little either country could do to help the Poles even after declaring war, due to geographical factors - and Hitler knew it. Hitler did not want war with France and Britain and possibly believed he could bluff his way out of war with them again. Hitler was, of course, wrong.
     
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  16. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    No I wont Stop since I'm showing some of the Info then I have to provide the Link as Source. I'll present my case the way I see Fit! All that information
    I've Cut and pasted Supports the Theory that Hitler could of been manipulated into War. That Russia had interests in Invading Germany since it was invading
    every one else around them. There's no Secret that Germany asked TWICE for peace and Britain Refused. Churchill even voiced that War with Germany
    should be taken seriously Since Germany is getting Stronger. And That's way before Hitler invaded Poland.

    Personally I have a problem with the Illuminati Created and Manipulated Hitler Thing! :D but theres enough evidence that theirs more to the beginning of
    WWII then we have been lead to believe, Like so many stories of WWII that have been altered or inaccurately told by many World renowned Historians as
    we have been finding out as many Secrets or documents+++are being uncovered today.

    Churchill's Deception is the gripping story of how Winston Churchill outwitted Adolf Hitler into invading the Soviet Union - a move that changed the course of
    World War II. Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Louis C. Kilzer has uncovered documentation which exposes this great and untold story, adding a new dimension
    to the legacy of Winston Churchill. Churchill's Deception describes how Great Britain shunned opportunities to end the war because it sought to dismember
    Germany, not merely to destroy Hitler. German generals were ready to topple the Fuhrer in 1939 and 1940, but only if Britain agreed not to take advantage of
    a civil war that would follow. England did not agree. And because of Hitler's own obsession about obtaining a pact with Great Britain, he offered to return his
    Western conquests in exchange for guarantees concerning Germany's interests in the East.

    Though Churchill held out for more, he took note of Hitler's obsessive desire for peace with England. He stoked the Fuhrer's illusions about Britain's desires for
    peace, in order, at first, to gain time to build its defenses. Later, when it appeared that Hitler was on the verge of victory, the British launched a final bid to
    hold him off. They invited the Deputy Fuhrer of Germany, Rudolf Hess, to attend a peace conference at which Hitler would negotiate the coming invasion of the
    Soviet Union with the British "Peace Party." Though Hitler did turn his attentions East, in the end, the game was not successful for England. She lost her empire
    anyway, while failing to stop a war that took more than fifty million lives. Had the British adopted an anti-Hitler, instead of an anti-Germany, foreign policy, the
    \history of the twentieth century could have been dramatically altered. Kilzer raises the significant question: Would another policy have avoided the Holocaust?

    Engrossing and controversial, Churchill's Deception will fuel the debate over Churchill's legacy, and be an invaluable addition to any World War II collection.

    Churchill's deception : the dark secret that destroyed Nazi Germany / Louis C. Kilzer | National Library of Australia


    "Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." George Orwell
     
  17. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    I think the word Triple C is looking for is "paraphrase" an example is to read the material, note the high spots and then cite the source. It really does make things easier. It also allows you to present your point. Think of it as a book report.

    Or if an essay is more your goal try to include a "thesis statement"

    Brad
     
  18. efestos

    efestos Member

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    That the Western allies should have invaded Nazi Germany in 1936, The excuse: re-militarization of the Ruhr , or intervention in the Spanish Civil War, the "Anschlussç"... Nobody in their right mind would discuss.
    In 1938 it was too late... Munich agreement: Adolph promised not to claim more teerritories. So in few months He reclaimed the Danzing ... He wasn´t a guy who you could trust.

    It is logical that Churchill did not accept a deal with Hitler: Out of the blockade, Adolph would have strengthened and would be an even greater threat. I doubt that deal would have allowed the strengthening of the RAF.
    The inherent weakness of Nazi Germany: No oil or other commodities, Out of world trade: Royal Navy , aggression against Norway and Holland, Italy in war... made the conflict with the USSR almost inevitable.

    May be it was the reason of the appeasement, Neville, Chamberlain , Bloom didn´t know that they were dealing with a insane leader.
     
  19. Triple C

    Triple C Ace

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    Hi LJAD,

    I do not dispute that Hitler anticipated G.B. to stay out of Poland's battlefields but I find it dubious that he expected G.B. to stay neutral after Czechoslovakia as the political pendulum was swinging to the other way. But I will say that he did seem to be genuinely surprised that G.B. persisted to resist Germany after 1940.

    Hello Spaniard,

    The problem with proclaiming any sort of unjustified hostility towards Germany on G.B.'s part was Hitler's clear intention to wipe out the Versaille and re-militarize. Also Churchill sincerely believed that the National Socialists were evil incarnate. It is true that G.B. lost her empire, but it was better than a Nazi empire that controlled all of Euroasia. The days of colonialism was numbered anyway, and to Britons' credit, few nations parted with their empire as gracefully.
     
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  20. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Declassified WWII-era Documents Published In Moscow

    MOSCOW. Aug 20 (Interfax-AVN) - A Moscow publishing house has brought out a collection of declassified documents on developments in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania shortly before and during World War II.

    "The Baltic States and Geopolitics, 1935-1945," published by Ripol Klassik in an edition of 2,000, contains documents that "show evolution in criteria used by statesmen in leading countries of the anti-Nazi coalition to assess the role of that region from the point of view of counteracting the aggressive policy of Nazi Germany, guaranteeing security for the Soviet Union and protecting the national interests of the United States, Britain and the USSR," historian Lev Sotskov, who put together the collection, says in a preface to it.

    The documents, declassified by Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR), record conclusions by influential politicians and points made by them that "are interesting from the standpoint of objective study of motives and secret mechanisms for making key political decisions for the sake of the main purpose, destruction of Nazism," Sotskov says.

    Declassified WWII Documents Published

    And that was already in Progress in 1935. From the end of the Great War to the Beginning of Part II. There was a strong partnership between all parties involved that Nazi Germany needed to be destroyed. With so many declassified Files being released today we will fined out that the War Declared on Germany was part of a bigger Picture. From Churchill alone which he took SOoooooo many classified, as Top Secret Files Home and kept them from WWII to write his Books. Therefore write history according to his point of View. And as we found out much of the info provided has been greatly embellished or incorrect.

    Medvedev orders posting of all Russian WWII archives on Internet by 2013

    http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100521/159105307.html
     

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