The British Bren and Sten guns: why?

Surprisingly you also see this in documentory footage.

 

The Sten was originally created as a cheaper alternative to the Thompson. Thompsons cost $225 and consisted of numerous parts. British commandos wanted something simpler and cheaper, thus the Sten was born. They cost $15 to make, and consisted of 25 parts.

 

In all categories like quality, reliability, and accuracy the Thompson was a superior SMG. However the "cost" of producing the "Thompson" had been drastically been reduced by the time it was discontinued in issue in 1944.

In 1939 Thompsons cost the government $209 apiece. By Spring of 1942 cost reduction design changes had brought this down to $70. In February of 1944 the M1A1 reached a low price of about $45 each, including accessories and spare parts.

But by the end of 1944, the M1A1 was replaced with the even lower cost M3 "Grease Gun". The M3 ($15) was designed and introduced in 1942, and an even more simplified M3A1 ($11) was introduced in 1944, and remained in issued service (in the USA) until 1960 or so as standard SMG weapons, until replaced slowly in issue for "tankers". They continued to "soldier on" in various units until well into the late '80-mid '90s however.

Only the M3A1's of WW2 were able to be converted to use 9mm rounds by replacing the barrel, the bolt, and installing the magazine adapter to use British STEN magazines. This might be why they continued to be used when the US adopted the 9mm pistol round in the Barretta so as to be compatible with other NATO ammunition supply.

Here is a free ebook issued by HLebooks .com on the STEN submachine gun.

Download page : http://hlebooks.com/ebook/stenload.htm

Ebook's Content

Field dismounting of the Sten Mark II

Advanced dismounting of the Sten (I)

Advanced dismounting of the Sten (II)

Sten models I, I*, II, IIs, III, IV, V, VIS and foreign

Sten component parts by model

Sten parts blue prints

Functionning of the Sten

The Sten accessories

History and design of the Sten

The German submachine guns

Other resources

 

Figured I should put this in as well, in early March of 1940 (a year before L/L was approved), the British government took the decision to peg the value of the pound to the dollar, at $4.03 where it remained though out the war years. This exchange rate was decided upon so that the "Cash and Carry" part of America’s 1939 Neutrality Act could be used in their weapons purchases.

So if you multiply the reported £5 cost of manufacture of each STEN by $4.03, the STEN cost more to produce than the M3A1 "Grease Gun"! $20.15 for the STEN, and $11 for the M3A1.

 

Well written! I forgot about the little Grease gun! I'm pretty sure it got issued to tankers as well as infantry, didn't it?

WAY OFF TOPIC!!!!

If I were the British, I wouldn't want the Sten! Yes, it's cheaper, but the malfunctions aren't worth it!

 

I posted this next quite a while ago, and it has a link (don't know if it is still 'live') with Jim Varney finding his Dad's stash of an old STEN.

The STEN Sub machinegun had a reputation for occasionally running away on the operator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFBuMVcA8KM


I thought that was too funny. You probably have to cut and paste the address into your browser, it doens't seem to "change" automatically for some reason.

 

HAHAHA!!!
That was so funny! I fell out of my chair I was laughing so hard!!

 

Glad ya liked it, thought this was a good place to drop it in! BTW, did you open up the video sections in that ebook link? Those are pretty good too. Shows that if held properly, and perhaps not "pulled on", the magazine can be used as a "handle". Although I would presume it wasn't a "taught" practice in the services when they were deployed.

 

Check out "Commando Extraordinaire" the story of Otto Skorzeny the great German special ops leader. He relates how he liked the Sten for special ops as it could be fitted with a very effective silencer. He related how he took a walk in the woods with another officer, & then fell behind a bit so he could test fire the silenced Sten he had hidden in his case. Only a short way away the other officer heard nothing & was shocked to discover what Skorzeny had done.

 

Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, don't forget there was a last ditch Nazi copy of the STEN (MP-3008), but here were only between 8,000 and 10,000 of those made in the last few months anyway.

 

Interesting idea, where have you pulled the £5 figure from because I've seen figures more like £2.50 quoted which tallies with the $11 figure I have seen elsewhere.

I think there are two things you are also missing, firstly the fact that the cost of the STEN was comparatively low, i.e. low compared to most alternatives. It may well have cost more to make (though probably not more to buy) than M3 but it was still cheaper than most of the alternatives. Secondly consider the political aspect, the STEN was British made and British designed, it was produced in British factories to arm British soldiers, it was a part of the British war effort. I think there is certainly something to be said for the argument that whether there was a better foreign design out there or not, was important to produce something British as well. There is also the fact that the British government has never been big on over-reliance on the US for firearms (which is why we are now stuck with the SA80) and so it would have been seen as important to have something that could be produced over here rather than relying on imported stock.

 

The 'dont hold the magazine' rule is not unique to Stens. I spent a lot of time missing targets with the Swedish M45 Gustaf, a bottom feeder. The magazine could actually tilt a few cms back and forth while remaining locked in the housing. As many posters as said, the Bren is a weapon of true beauty, a real classic.

 

See another good thread on the Bren Gun here: http://www.ww2f.com/topic/2875-bren-versus-bar

Shooting a Bren 100-Round Drum
Thanks to: http://www.youtube.com/user/ForgottenWeapons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMKn3BBaC_U

 

So many written accounts refer to 'the steady hammering of a Bren' and that clip shows why.......

 

I served with the R.N.Z.N during the early 70's and we trained on the L1A1 SLR and the L2A3 Sterling SMG. God help you if the G.I. caught you firing the Sterling whilst holding the magazine. You got your arse kicked, big time. We were instructed to fire that weapon, right hand on the pistol grip and trigger, left hand gripped around the barrel shroud......unless of course you were left handed, then you just reversed your hand positions.

 

I'm a novice when it comes to post-war SMGs, but didn't the barrel shroud heat up after a while? If so what was the procedure for firing?