Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

The Canadian Army in Movies

Discussion in 'WWII Films & TV' started by Rubberman, Apr 26, 2009.

  1. André7

    André7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    "Commandos Strike At Dawn" (1942) Paul Muni plays a Norweegen citizen who escapes to the UK and returns to his homeland in order to guide a group of Canadian commandos in an attack on a German airfield.
     
  2. André7

    André7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
  3. André7

    André7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    If any of you are up for it, we should really discuss WHY there are not more fictional representations of the Canadian armed forces in popular media, and particularly in movies.

    We are flooded with movies showing British and American wartime history. We are shown the heroes of any number of conflicts involving the united states, the UK, Australia and other commonwealth countries.

    It is not that Canada was not involved in many wars (the Boer War, 1812, WWI, WWII, Korea, Crete, Bosnia, Afganistan, etc.)

    It is not that Canadian soldiers did not act with distinction in those conflicts (their many awards for bravery testify to that). It is not that we citizens are embarrassed or ashamed of our young men and their acts of valour.

    So why do we have to dig deep to find examples of Canadian soldiers represented on the screen? I have an answer, but it won't go down well. First I'd like to read what you think.
     
  4. André7

    André7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Lifeline To Victory (1993)
    about the Canadian naval services and specifically a Corvette commander. Directed for television by Eric Till.

    Paul Devereaux is a second officer with lots of experience with merchant ships. But this is World War II and the Royal Canadian Navy desperately needs experienced officers. Paul is thus given command of his own ship. However, in early 1940's, Canadian Navy does not have the biggest budget nor the most qualified enlisted men. Paul's ship must escort merchant ship to Europe and back and take part in the longest naval battle in history.
     
  5. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9,545
    Likes Received:
    3,053
    Its any interesting question...the obvious answer is who is the movie being marketed to? The biggest market would be the answer...a slightly lesser reason IMO is that countries outside of Britain and the US are seen as bit players...peripherals...wrong of course, but id forgive the people for thinking so.
     
  6. André7

    André7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    I wrote a paper about this at University. A couple of people have done extensive research about it.

    http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/the-history-of-film-in-canada/

    In a nutshell, American business interests took control of the distribution outlets in Canada as early as the 1910s and kept their mafia like control all through the 20th century. By using block booking and other business tactics, by undercutting efforts by Canadian film makers to get their movies shown in any meaningful way, the American studios took the means of exhibiting Canadian products (turning a profit and creating a steady revenue stream in order to build up an industry) away from the local talent pool. You could get a movie made, but not shown within the borders of your own country. Any efforts on the part of legislators to curb American studios from dominating and controling the market was met with a strong lobby,(mostly but not exclusively by the MPAA) threats of boycotts and when aplicable, political sanctions. By the 1970s the percentage of movies being shown on Canadian screens that were not American were under 10%.

    It should be noted that this situation is not exclsive to Canada. the same was happening in Australia, New Zealand and even in Great Britain. France, other European and Asian countries (and Quebec) had the advantage of being insulated by a language barrier, so their audiences were a little more open to watching movies that were constructed on another narrative model.

    By steadily feeding the markets in other countries a steady stream of American movies Hollywood also created an impression that the American model of story telling is the best or only viable one. In other words, if all you've ever known is a Big Mac, you have trouble tasting and appreciating other foods. There are several interesting books on the subject of American imperialism as it pertains to the film industry.

    http://books.google.ca/books/about/Canadian_Dreams_and_American_Control.html?id=mm7a2HukUVoC&redir_esc=y
     
  7. André7

    André7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Just to be clear: The size of the American market is a factor as well. The access to that market determines the size of the budget. Making war films along an American model (i.e. epic action films about battles) is a risky and expensive venture.

    I recently posted about a Quebec film maker who is trying to put together the capital to make a movie about Canadian war hero Léo Major. The story has all the ingredients to make a good American style action film that would appeal to the under 25 market. The same audience that will go see the latest X-Men film or Jason Statham movie would love it.

    http://www.badassoftheweek.com/leomajor.html

    Will it get made? Doubtful, for the same reason Nick Nolte was cast in "Hotel Rwanda" as French Canadian general Romeo Dallaire and then the whole identity and back story of the character changed to make him American.
     
  8. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    10,103
    Likes Received:
    2,574
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    And here I thought that Colonel Oliver is wearing a funny looking American flag.
    [​IMG]
    Apparently he hails from the "Lone Maple Leaf" state.


    I would agree with that...After all, we don't even honor our own.

    Can't say that I have seen any films based on these individuals.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Two-time_Medal_of_Honor_recipients
     
    CAC likes this.
  9. André7

    André7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    I'm sure that's how many Americans see the Canadian flag. (lol) Mea Culpa. I forgot colonel "Oliver" was supposed to be a Canadian.
     
  10. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Member Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,271
    Likes Received:
    678
    Location:
    Auburn, Alabama, US
    Interesting thread. I have spent the vast majority of my life in Alabama, hard to get much further away from Canada than that. Luckily I have gotten to trave4l a great deal, including Canada and have always had a great admiration for the Canadian people and their armed forces. I am amazed at the contributions they have made to WW1 and 2 that seem out of proportion to their population. I realize I* am not normal but I have never gone to a movie because it was made in America, about Americans , or started American actors. I try to see movies that I think will be good movies and fine if it is American but just as happy it ir were Dutch or Czech................or Canadian. but I must be in a tiny minority. Canadians are extremely capable at all endeavors and could make great movies , the Australians certainly do. Maybe it is the proximity to the US and trying to cover both. They could easily do a Foyle's War type of series or a stand alone film of note.

    I am certain Poppy would like to see a good Canadian war film about their army crossing the Northern German Plain in 1945. Justin Bieber could be a tough 2od Lt. with Pam Anderson as his "older" love interest, an aging but good hearted German Fraulein.....Ummmmmmm, maybe it could be a musical ? And filmed near the Baltic to get Pam on the beach !!!! Great potential, what ? At least it would get them back across the border.

    But seriously the average Canadian I have meet seem to have more self discipline, better manners and thoughtfulness than I display. I think them able to make first rate films, about war or any other subjects. .
     
    André7 likes this.
  11. Highway70

    Highway70 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    Challenge, CA
    Don't remember the name, but there is a movie about a young Canadian airman (a farm boy with his dog) He somehow sneaks the dog onto a mission over Norway. The plane is shot down. He and the dog are the only survivors . He is captured when the dog inadvertently showed a German where he was hiding. Latter escaping he and the dog eventually returning home.

    EDIT The movie is Son of Lassie staring Peter Lawford, made in 1945 by MGM,
    -------------------------------------------


    In The Great Impostor staring Tony Cutis which is loosely based on the life of Ferdinand Demara, one of the scams portrayed is pretending to be a Canadian Navy doctor on the HMCS Cayuga during the Korean War.
     
  12. André7

    André7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    It's not a matter of talent. Some Canadians choose to stay and work exclusively in Canada, others work abroad and are highly regarded. It has long been known that many "American" stars, writers, producers and directors were actually born in Canada. Many immigrate because that's where the money is.

    It's not a matter of the quality of work done by our technicians or a lousy attitude. Many American or other film makers would prefer to make their movies in Canada if given a choice. Apparently Canadian film crews have an excellent reputation for both their industriousness and flexibility. Many film directors are pleasantly surprised to find how Canadian film crews are willing to do things (menial tasks that are not properly part of their job definitions) in order to make the production better. This reputation has been carefully built up over the past five decades, since the late 1970s when the Canadian government created tax incentives to make production cheaper in Canada than in the US where local unions were inflating the cost of making movies.

    It's all about distribution. Movies made by Canadians for Canadians were not seen in Canada unless they got picked up by an American distributor. Because American business interests owned the Canadian theatre chains. Any efforts by elected officials in Canada to legislate change was headed off by an American lobby with all its bag of dirty ricks. (from 1900 to the 1980s). In the 1970s there were two major theater chains in Canada. Cineplex Odeon and Famous Players. Both controlled from California and New York. The profits from the movies (including Canadian made movies) shown were being poured back into the US and reinvested into American productions. As long as the money is controlled by Americans the decision making process of what is made belongs to a few studio heads who jealously guarded their business interests. They had no interest in seing Canadian made movies that could reduce their profit margin in any way.

    Finally the Canadian government created Telefilm Canada (to finance Canadian film production.). Along with credit programs and tax shelters, this created a climate where American movies could be made in Canada, giving our film people jobs and production experience. (Hence the "Hollywood North" nickname for Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver). The downside was that the english language movies being made were mostly clones of American movies (in the hopes that they would be picked up for distribution). Or they were American movies with all American top line talent and Canadian crews. Nevertheless these efforts slowly paid off over time.

    Some Canadian movies did get made and shown. Just for fun, look up the list of Genie award winners (this is the Canadian version of the Academy Award). First notice that the Canadian academy for film and television was created at about the same time as the Canadian film fund and telefilm Canada in the 1970s in order to promote Canadian films to Canadian audiences. Take note of how many french-Quebec movies won the genie over the years versus english language films. You will see a definite pattern. Also, many of the english movies have since dropped away into obscurity. Many are not even available on dvd. More of the french movies have survived and been preserved. French language movies had an advantage over english language movies in that they were more easily exported to France and other french language countries. Also more Quebecers per capita would make the effort (yes, effort) to see their own movies, allowing Quebec film makers to eek out a living and build a reputation and Quebec producers to turn enough profit to make more movies. Government funding greased the wheels.

    Because the whole system worked somehow, many other countries emmulated Canada's tax shelter system and innovated on it. One of those countries was Australia. What Australia had that Canada did not, was a distinct accent and culture from the American culture. The cultural bleed between Canada and the US makes it difficult sometimes to distinguish between us in a cosmetic way. The differences are not always readily apparent. The differences are there historically and they are there on other levels, but so many Canadian artists have crossed over and had an impact on American culture, from Mack Sennett (creator of the Keystone cops) through John Candy, Kiefer Sutherland to Paul Haggis... Through rock groups like RUSH... That english Canadian and American are blurred somewhat. So getting back to Australia in the 1979s. Their film industry was struggling because again, theatre chains were owned by American interests. When the film makers from down under had a string of movies that were shown first in film festivals, and then managed to get picked up for art house distribution, this created a niche market, an interest on the part of the movie going public to see more. After Peter weir's "Picknic At Hanging Rock" there was "Gallipoli" and Bruce Beresford's "Breaker Morant" and "Mad Max" (strangely re-dubbed into "American" because the distributor felt the Aussie accent wouldn't sell). These were followed by other movies from the same directors. Then came Philip Noyce's "Dead Calm". At some point the curtain came down. Americans liked the exoticism of Australian films. Something Canadians couldn't quite match.

    Ask yourself how you would feel if 90% of the movies being shown in your home town were about another country, made in another country and the profits went away to another country. One single other country. Another 5% to 7% are from around the world. 3% to 5% are made at home but are not shown for more than two weeks at the end of november and in early january when attendance is always at an annual low. (Between the end of the summer and Christmas season and just before Oscar season and the big summer releases come out). After those two weeks they get yanked, regardless of how well they are doing at the box office.

    So its not a matter of the openness of the American public to the product. In many cases it is about the access to the product. Things changed drastically in the 1980s with the advent of home video and cable. Now there was an alternative way of getting Canadian films into the hands of American viewers. With internet and on line streaming it gets even better. There is however the profit to cost ratio that limits how much money can be spent on a Canadian war movie. Paul Gross' "Passchendaele" was somewhat of a test movie. After the success of his comedy "Men With Brooms", he and his producers felt it was possible to try a more ambitious and expensive production. While the marketing of the movie was done "à l'Américain" the production itself was 100% Canadian (a rarety even in Canadian movies, where a bankable American star is still necessary to get a movie distributed).

    Sorry for going on and on. As I wrote earlier, I studied film in the late 70s and early 80s and wrote a couple of papers on the subject. I guess I just wrote another.
     
    Poppy, gtblackwell and Otto like this.
  13. André7

    André7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    What a cruel idea, bringing a dog on a bomber mission. Do they show the crew strapping an oxygen mask over the dog's face? Those were unpressurized machines flying at very high altitude. Urggh!

    Also, isn't the hero from Yorkshire? Did they change his origins? What's the Canadian angle?
     
  14. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Member Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,271
    Likes Received:
    678
    Location:
    Auburn, Alabama, US
    Andre, excellent summation of the Canadian film industry. I am always amazed at "American" performers in many fields that turn out to be Canadian.
    Years ago a friend and I sat down to eat in Toronto. He ordered leg of lamb well done. In a bit the chef came out and nicely apologized saying he was sorry but he simply could not cook the lamb well done and offered to do many other dishes and a terrific conversation ensued. My friend ended up with a delicious fish, both were happy, I was impressed with the service, civility and adherence to one's standards and it was a lasting example of how people should behave. .

    Gaines
     
  15. André7

    André7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    I have travelled many times in the United States and have never had a bad experience or been treated with anything but curtesy, kindness, etc. I loved New Orleans, Dallas and Fort Worth, Saint Louis, Florida and many of the northern States. I honeymooned in Vermont and am planning on going back this summer with the kids.

    In the final analysis Canada and the US have far more in common than we have differences (except the gun thing and socialized medecine, both of which scare the hell out of me when I travel to your otherwise great country).

    I think I have written enough about this. The topic of the thread is representations of Canadian soldiers in World War Two. We have procuced some great documentaries and docu-dramas on the subject. Most of our greatest film makers are documentarians. Many Canadian film makers (like Terence McKenna and his brother Brian) have specialized in military history. Also, Graham Yost was born in Ontario. If you like Justified, Band of Brothers, and The Pacific, you may be surprised at how many of the producer-writers are Canadian.
     
  16. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9,545
    Likes Received:
    3,053
    You could be right...in certain circumstances...i would wager the dog would be more stressed to be excluded from the group (its master) whenever they go on ops...He'd be chuffed to be right there with him...Scared...but chuffed.
     
  17. André7

    André7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Love that word "Chuffed" :drink_a_pint:
     
    CAC likes this.
  18. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    Messages:
    7,740
    Likes Received:
    820
    Some nice bits there Andre. Could you comment on the role our CRTC played, if any?

    Hoping digital animation will even the playing field for Canada-something like REBOOT for adults....Had always thought the CRTC was a real hinderance to television/movies. They decide who gets funding(politics,favouritism, cronyism,nepotism, etc), rather than letting free market decide ...Give us more FUBAR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIpD1kXDpWI
     
  19. PvtJohnTowle_MoH

    PvtJohnTowle_MoH Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    I found this one on YouTube

    [youtube]http://youtu.be/AlJD0pZp4eQ[/youtube]
     
  20. André7

    André7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    I'm a little more rusty about the early history of the CRTC.

    It had to do with radio waves. The CRTC was first brought into being to control licensing of Canadian air waves frequencies. Certain frequencies were reserved for Air traffic control, police frequencies, etc. and protected by law. By extension they began governing radio stations on the am and fm dials, making sure only accredited broadcasters could use certain frequencies for transmission. Later this was extended to television broadcasters as well.

    Things got stickier when the mandate was extended to regulate content, especially Canadian Content. Given that most of Canada's population hugs the 49th parallel and that we were inundated with American broadcasting over the air waves, it becomes rather complex. Also, just defining "Canadian Content" and enforcing quotas has always been difficult, at best. The whole process relies on the good will of the broadcaster.

    HOWEVER- Studies have shown that since the CRTC first introduced Canadian Content quotas in the 1960s and 1970s, the Canadian music and television industries have improved both in quantities and qualities of their products and career opportunities have grown for Canadian talent within our borders. I apologize if i cannot give sources or quotes to back up any of these statements. My facts may be full of holes.

    As an aside: When I was studying in communications at University level, the final assignment was to write a complete application for a CRTC radio license. Different teams in class would do market studies to try to come up with a financially viable idea that had not been done before. Only one license was given by a commitee comprised of the teacher and two of her colleagues. The winning team received an automatic passing grade. The rest got very low marks. We worked like dogs. After the presentation one of my friends and I went out and got stinking drunk because the worst team won.

    So thanks for bringing up painful memories Poppy.
     
    Poppy likes this.

Share This Page