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The New "Inland" M1 Carbine

Discussion in 'Small Arms and Edged Weapons' started by KodiakBeer, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    A mortar man is primarily concerned with servicing his mortar not keeping both or even one hand on a personal weapon. A truck driver is going to be driving the his truck. Support troops primary duties aren't firing a backup weapon. You want to know where your weapon is and make sure it's accessible but it's not your primary concern.
     
  2. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Given my druthers, I'd want both!
     
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  3. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    I like the M1 Carbine very much. Mine is a 1944 Underwood and is pretty accurate, handy and it is fun to shoot it at our competitions. A mate has a new one from Auto Ordnance and he is happy with that one too
     
  4. Terry D

    Terry D Active Member

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    Many of the complaints against the carbine, it appears to me, are due to misunderstanding of the nature of the weapon and/or attempts in the field to use it as something it was not designed to be. Much of this, I suspect, was due to hasty wartime training. The complaints of men wasting fire with the M2 in Korea are again, I think, due to inadequate training and fire discipline, not to any faults in the weapon itself. Korea highlighted this problem, among others, because in the winter of 1950-51 a higher proportion of men in the rifle companies were apparently carrying it than in WWII. Marshall cites cases where up to a third of the men in the rifle company were armed with carbines. I am not at all sure why that was so. Many companies were under strength when the November 1950 UN offensive began, and if as usual most of the personnel deficiencies in the rifle companies were in the Garand-armed rifle squads then this may have accounted for a higher than usual proportion of carbines in the companies as a whole (the weapons platoons and HQs having the latter). If the carbine was being issued in greater numbers than usual in the rifle squads then that may have been due to other problems in supply. I don't know what the supply of Garands was like at that point, but if it was short and carbines issued instead that would not surprise me. The US armed forces were short of all sorts of important items that first year.

    SUMMARY
    Points against the carbine:
    1. The bullet is on the light side, perhaps too much so.
    2. It does not appear to work very well in extremely low temperatures (this may be due to the design of the gas system)
    3. It does not have the range or power of a battle rifle (and of course SHOULD NOT BE EXPECTED TO HAVE THEM).

    Points in favor of the carbine:
    1. Superior in range to the sidearms which it was designed to replace
    2. Pretty good capacity (15 to 30 rounds)
    3. Light
    4. Handy, points OK
    5. Usually reliable except in extreme cold
    6. Full auto option in M2 version

    The balance is positive.
     
  5. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    As a ballistic scientist I thought I should measure the force of the .30 Carbine round at my secretive lair deep in the Arizona desert. I used cutting edge technology, shooting entirely through a regional phone book and into 24 inches of dihydrogen monoxide. The results were interesting, at 2000 feet per second the carbine generated about 950 foot pounds at the muzzle, or in metric, about 36 Newtons per baguette.

     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  6. Terry D

    Terry D Active Member

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    Well, the target was at least as thick as a quilted Red Chinese jacket. Was that with standard ball or hollow points?
     
  7. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    It was standard 110 grain ball, Aguila. Note that it also went all the way through 4 gallon jugs of water (24 inches).

    .
     
  8. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    It's amazing what happens when those little carbines actually hit somethin' ain't it .
     
  9. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    What do you have against Advanced Air Systems?
     
  10. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Not horribly surprising results. It was fairly close range so the speed of the bullet was still over the speed of sound and the bullet was optimized for penetration. Some of the old military loadings for such as the 7X57, 303, 30-03, 6.5X54MS, etc. with their long-for-caliber roundnose bullets were found to be reliable elephant killers! Have you tried the same experiment at say 100yds?
     
  11. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    Impossible to test because according to the likes of Duwk-man the carbine can't hit the broad side of a barn from 5yds away and would jam on the first shot anyway, likely leading to a severe injury to the operator since he was silly enough not to choose the manly M1 Garand for the task. Besides, the poor penetration of the .30 Carbine slug would cause a ricochet off of those dihydrogen monoxide molecules in the same manner of it bouncing off those Chinese puffy jackets during the Korean War. Or something like that.
     
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  12. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    The carbine compares favorably against other pistol and intermediate rounds of the era.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    They're in Thatcher, which is a show-off town with its own grocery store and big-city ways.

    .
     
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  14. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    The joke was supposed to be about the phone book, but nobody seemed to get it.. You normally think of a huge phone book about 4 or 5 inches thick, but around here, well...

    .
     
  15. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    I thought about mentioning it'd be impressive if you videoed you ripping that phonebook in half. But anyone who takes on a Grizzly, intentionally or not, can stand on their own merit.

    Which nudges me to consider rereading your adventure in Alaska.
     
  16. harolds

    harolds Member

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    What joke? I've lived most of my life in towns where the phone books are less than half an inch thick! If it takes me longer than 10 minutes to get out of town then the town's to big for me.
     
  17. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish WW2|ORG Editor

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    I'd almost forgotten what a phone book is.
     
  18. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    You should buy a fresh copy because, umm, uh... to get the full impact!

    .
     
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  19. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    Considering how I usually head directly to the bargain bin or discount shelves at Barnes and Noble, I actually paid you a high complement by paying full price. :D Well worth it though. A good book is like a fine wine, a little feathering along the page edges shows you've enjoyed the experience.
    Besides you'd probably just spend the windfall on another piece of artillery.
     
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  20. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    You should have used tapes of Barbra Walters Interviews...
     
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