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The New "Inland" M1 Carbine

Discussion in 'Small Arms and Edged Weapons' started by KodiakBeer, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I have yet to see a substantive argument that suggest a pistol was better than a carbine in most cases. I.e. the data I've seen suggest that it was indeed a very effective and useful weapon. You obviously don't like it but all of your arguments are either anecdotal or based on unsupported opinions of a few experts. You may be correct but you are doing a very poor job of proving it.
     
  2. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    Ah ha! Finally a substantive excerpt which deals with problems of the M1 Carbine itself rather than "its not as powerful as a full-power rifle". Thanks.
     
  3. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    But still only a single anecdote and one that raises a fair number of questions once you start thinking about it.
     
  4. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, you have to wonder on the basis of that incident why the Army didn't immediately drop the carbine and return exclusively to the pistol. After all, the pistol proved to be lethal in this instance when the carbine malfunctioned, ipso facto all carbines were not lethal and should be junked and all pistols were lethal and should have become the primary small arm for all troops. Perfectly logical.
     
  5. WILD DUKW

    WILD DUKW Active Member

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  6. WILD DUKW

    WILD DUKW Active Member

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    Hyperbole much?
     
  7. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    There is no argument for "a pistol is better." The carbine has 2 1/2 times the energy and at least 5 times the range of the 1911. I suppose one could argue that the exposed bolt lends itself to dirt and thus fouling/malfunctions, but the same exposed action lends itself to quick clearance of any jams. I've shot them off and on all my life and find them reliable enough.

    As for a different light rifle of the era that might serve better, I don' think there was anything close to being that light. The M# weight 8 pounds and the Sten 7 pounds, and neither of them had anything approaching the range or power of the M1 Carbine.

    .
     
  8. WILD DUKW

    WILD DUKW Active Member

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    Why do you ignore my post # 125? Please read what Jeff Cooper said about the .30 Cal Carbine.

    Who said a pistol is better?
     
  9. WILD DUKW

    WILD DUKW Active Member

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    Who are you quoting?
     
  10. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    Not you. Don't take everything personally.
     
  11. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    I just don't get it. If the Carbine was such a failure why was it the most produced rifle during WW2? Each weapons system had it's faults and perks. The Garand wasn't perfect but not to hear tell from those who defend it's virtues.
    No one here has proclaimed the M1 carbine as being a superior weapon only that it was a step above the .45 which is specifically why it was designed. It appears that machismo leads the way in decrying the disadvantages and over looking the real issue; It was a Personal Defense weapon designed and issued to non front line troops. Reminds me of being on the Golf course and guys pulling out the Driver, because you can walloped the crap out of it, rather a "lesser" club that they could actually hit.

    One can find just as many who liked it, if not more, than those to dismiss it.

    "The M1 carbine has been derided for being insufficiently powerful to serve as an Infantry combat rifle. This is an unfair characterization. The carbine was never intended to supplant the M1 Garand. It was intended to replace the M1911A1 handgun and in this capacity was simply superlative. A friend who carried one for nearly a year in combat in Europe during World War 2 once told me that the carbine lent itself to multiple rounds on target very quickly and was completely effective in practical use. Given his pedigree, I would trust his opinion."

    The M1 Carbine and The Story of War Hero Jack Lucas - GunsAmerica Digest
     
  12. WILD DUKW

    WILD DUKW Active Member

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    Who are your quoting?
     
  13. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I can think of one. A pistol is much better if you are going for conceald carry or for that matter if you don't intend to use it but want the "armed" look.
    Perhaps because it was unreadable?
    You have.
     
  14. WILD DUKW

    WILD DUKW Active Member

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    I carry my Ruger 45 ACP both ways depending on the circumstances.

    Quite legible to me. Would you like me to retype it for you in a big font?

    Anyone else having trouble reading the Jeff Cooper comments above?

    If you can find where I said the "pistol was better" [than the carbine], please indicate the post #.
     
  15. Terry D

    Terry D Active Member

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    If you are referring to #125, then the left half of the scan is illegible. I see Cooper discussing the .30 Mauser (and Luger?), the .380 ACP, .32-20, and .32 revolver cartridges. I don't see anything about the .30 carbine round at all.
     
  16. WILD DUKW

    WILD DUKW Active Member

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    It on the right page in the discussion for the .32 ACP.
     
  17. Terry D

    Terry D Active Member

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    That's all? Does he have a more detailed discussion of the .30 carbine cartridge anywhere? I'd be interested if so. I do know that many critics find the bullet too light,
     
  18. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    How about in post #25 of this thread. You even put a smile in there for effect.
    That said, I think you were clear in you quote and source of the Cooper book (post 125). He did mention the .32 ACP in relation to the .30-carbine. You are likely the victim of wearing out a welcome. Other members don't want to dig into a topic that has become abrasive. I can't speak to the weight of the citation, but it is indeed there.

    The acrimony levels in this thread are high, it might be worth everyone taking a step back and realizing this is only the internet.
     
  19. WILD DUKW

    WILD DUKW Active Member

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    I will happily step back permanently. I don't think I've every seen a bigger bunch of wimps when it comes to dealing with sources that do not agree with their personal, preconceived notions.

    And they become acrimonious when they are unable to refute my sources? It's been fun, but dealing with such people is a dreary occupation.

    BTW Post #24, not 25..... "Woefully lacking" as a replacement for the .45 ACP handgun. :) is not the same thing as saying the 45 ACP was better. The is a distinct difference in meaning between the two.
     
  20. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    Hey KodiakBeer, referencing way back to post #1 - have you thought about a grenade launcher for that thing ? Be interesting to see how the local fauna react.
     

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