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The UK Debate

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Richard, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. Richard

    Richard Expert

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    OK, I'm going to open it up now with this question.

    Why do we need Westminster as the EU is now passing 75-80% of our laws?

    I admit the real power now sits in Brussels and Westminster just rubber stamps there laws.

    Once again how many people know how much power the EU has over us?
     
  2. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Because we need representation at a national level, and also locally for Scotland Wales and Ulster. Centralised power doesn't always work efficiently, that's why there was a clamouring for parliaments in those countries. The arguments from English people about Brussels taking all their power away is exactly how the Welsh, Irish and Scots view Westminster.
    Plus people have a right to be represented in their own backyard; very few of us will ever get the chance to sit in the visitor's gallery at Westminster, so we elect people whom we can pester when it suits us and then demand they raise our concerns at Westminster.
    What's the chances of anyone getting to Brussels or Strasbourg to interrogate their MEP if Westminster was abolished or the chances of him/her coming to you?
    We don't live in a European superstate yet- there are three different legal systems in Britain (England and Wales, Scotland and Ulster) as a result of the Acts of Union; I know the English think their legal system is paramount throughout the UK but it ain't!
    I agree there should be harmonisation, but that raises a whole bunch of constitutional issues. Some laws just need to be made at local level by people familiar with a particular set of problems, not hundreds of miles away (again an accusation often levelled at Westminster by the Celtic Fringe). Sort of like the Swiss Cantonments or the US state system, I suppose.
     
  3. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    yes a lot of power is now divesred to europe. a look at how laws are made and introduced in this country is a pre requisite for informed comment. mps are even fooled on this. unless we know how bills and which bills influenced by europe actually make it onto the statute book then you just invite a slanging match i wont take part in that.
     
  4. Richard

    Richard Expert

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    I would not be very surprised to see in my life time that Westminster becomes nothing more than a big council for the EU. I can not stand the EU but I will give them this, they never hid there agenda of a super states of europe.


    OK, Councils are now on the agenda.

    Now here is something that bugs me...most of the power here sits with the county council so why do I need a council? Street light and rubbish hardly justifies the need for them.
     
  5. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Again, it's representation at a local level to provide services. Can you really see a council in Edinburgh sending bin lorries all the way to Wick once a week?
     
  6. Richard

    Richard Expert

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    Our rubbish pick up is ever other week.

    I've got this on going issue for many years now, both the county council and council have passed the buck blamed each other and so on over a ....

    Parking restriction sign that went up in my road and no one knows how it got there? Give me a break someone must know.

    All this dose is to drag it out between to two plonker councils and I'm fed up with it and so is the street. If I had only had to deal with one plonker council then that would save me 50% of time.

    The amount of letters and seeing these plonkers has only convinced me of one fact! These people are living a day dream. Yes I have had words with my MP as well, its a council issue.
     
  7. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Much more power than bins and street lighting.
     
  8. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Read your councils council tax allocation of monies raised to do with policing education health and quangos
     
  9. Richard

    Richard Expert

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    I do read there info and they love double dutch and big fancy words.

    Once again the system works for all from MP's to councilors.

    My conclusion is this...you guys have just confirmed what I knew. I will leave this open until Friday then we're move on to part two.
     
  10. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Get yourself a copy of simon heings general election 2005 rich.. It is illuminating.
     
  11. Richard

    Richard Expert

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    I shall look in to it. :)
     
  12. Richard

    Richard Expert

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    OK...Folks time to move on.


    Part Two

    Red Tape

    How many times have you been caught out by this rubbish...small print anyone? Red Tape is just not rules and regulations its also the meaning of words and what they stand off, how many time have you interpreted the meaning of the words and they tell you different?

    Or even miss information & lack of info from them?

    I had a new printer go wrong and called out the engineer under the guarantee which was almost up...any how he saw I was not using there brand ink cartridges and said I was using poor substitute cartridges which were cheaper, result violation of the guarantee and no free repair.

    No where in there leaflets did it say anything about this, and yet I was told go to there Internet site for full information by the engineer! And here is the crux of the issue, the ink cartridges at nothing to do with the problem. Any way threw out the printer and bought a new one which was cheaper than the repair cost!

    I get the impression the reason for the red tape is this...confuse you and put you off and in the pass I have said "stuff it".

    From goods to bills to contracts you can bet its there. Why over complicate the issue?
     
  13. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    To answer your original question richard, i know my mp personally, picked him to vote for because of his record and because he reflects my views. As for small print, i find reading it helps on end
     
  14. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    To answer your original question richard, i know my mp personally, picked him to vote for because of his record and because he reflects my views. As for small print, i find reading it helps on end
     
  15. Richard

    Richard Expert

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    I've have found small print can have a double meaning...Newspeak 1984. ;)
     
  16. Richard

    Richard Expert

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    Ok...Time to move on.

    BTW: Anyone here can start a topic on this thread feel free.
     
  17. Richard

    Richard Expert

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    OK...

    Part Three

    The BBC & the license fee

    To get you all going what do you make of this..
    BBC wins right to keep costs secret - Telegraph

    Well I do not think the BBC has the right to hide that fact after all I'm paying for them. They would be fast enough to hound me for not paying the license.
     
  18. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    I agree with that Richard however I think the problem with the BBC is the same as that of the NHS and numerous other things, people are trying to run it as a comercial enterprise which it isn't and shouldn't be. The BBC should be (and until recently was) a last bastion for quality broadcasting, other channels put out some good stuff but none of them matched the BBC for consistancy. Now, by attempting to pander to the x-factor/big brother generation they have started to churn out the same pap as every other channel and to my mind this is a step in the wrong direction. The license fee is there so that they don't have to produce rubbish just to survive. That said, they still produce a lot of fantastic broadcasting, easily enough to justify paying the license fee, the biggest risk to the organisation is their own shoddy behaviour which brings them into disrepute and makes the whole system questionable.
     
  19. WotNoChad?

    WotNoChad? Member

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    I think the biggest problems come from the many tiers of government we have to endure, none of which seem to actually want to serve us, each pointing skyward when asked to pinpoint either responsibility or a way to get some action taken on any issue plus these tiers existing in a bubble. So when the private sector has to efficiently offer a service with as few staff as possible, the opposite is true of government.

    The result is if you do try to play a part in being civic minded, as in being a good citizen rather than a politician, you'll soon find how most govt. departments or quangos really don't wish to co-operate with you and will often prefer to send you on an aimless quest where someone else has to deal with you rather than them. This chase typically costs you, proves fruitless and is a massive disincentive.

    The only saving grace is IF, and that's a big if, you happen to have a good constituency MP, which I'm lucky enough to have. However there is a limit to how many times you can approach your MP, and what about, as they're busy souls with plenty on their plates.

    Overall with just about every element of British governance there's a high amount of exclusion, the only time the parties feign interest in the voters is in the run up to elections, the civil service tend to never feign any interest, aside from when they find themselves managing some form of crisis, and quangos enjoy a totally free reign with as much public cash as they can wrangle.

    If ever the UK needed some form of revolution it's right now, however we find it hard to take such talk seriously, we don't really do militaristic mobs doing funny marches nor do we particularly take bearded wonders espousing Marxism seriously. It's not so much up a creek without a paddle, we don't even have a canoe.
     
  20. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    Your last comment is so true Chad, as a nation we don't do revolution.

    That said, I think you have it the wrong way round regarding the efficiency of the private sector and the government. Consider how rarely you find a company that genuinely serves it's customers, they serve themselves first followed by their shareholders (or anyone else who is going to give them lots of money). So often customers are simply there to be conned out of their money with sub-standard produce made at the lowest cost and lowest quality. This is pretty much exactly how the government works these days, people are customers to be used as such. Councils, government etc are all the same, most folks are just there for a living, those who aren't are either on the make, on their way into management whilst those who genuinely care and work hard to do the job well are doomed to remain at the lowest levels because they won't compromise themselves.

    Government shouldn't be run as a business, as a money making enterprise because contrary to popular belief this doesn't lead to a better service. It should be run to the betterment of the people, the 'profit' or measure of success should be the happiness of the people and quality of life. Sadly though this is never going to happen so long as our entire culture is based on greed alone. As long as those who seek personal advancement at any cost outnumber those dedicated to the betterment of their clients we will never see a government that genuinely helps those who vote it into power.
     

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