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This is especially for those who oppose the Death Penalty. Would you still oppose it after reading t

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by C.Evans, Jan 28, 2009.

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  1. Richard

    Richard Expert

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    I think I said this before, I get so naffed off when you hear some one has got life on the news and yet they go to say anywhere from 7 to 20 years. What rot, life in my book is they go to prison and they are going to die in there. Its about time they just dropped saying 'life' and say something else instead.

    Human life is so cheap now makes you wonder what sentences be like in 20 years from now.

    Its all going to Hell anyway!

    I'm done and dusted on this one.
     
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  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 Member

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    I think Richard is refering to the British Judicial System and you are (I assume) quoting American stats and policies.

    I would wager they are too totally different things.

    Cheers
     
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 Member

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    He was arrested originally by a mate of mine for attempt murder.....She was strangled for so long she lost the sight in one eye.

    The Satan known as CPS dropped the charge to GBH to increase the chances of a conviction which then made it harder for them to get him remarnded in custody.

    When I got there her fingers were hanging off her hands from defensive wounds and steam was coming out of her neck.

    Cheers for the links I'll have a butchers when I have more time :)
     
  4. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Hi Drew, I knew Richard was talkig about the British System, but I wanted to let you and others know that our system is not that much more different than yours is-concerning length of time a prisoner serves in prison and excluding the 10 years Probation that they have to abide by after release. Now as far as I am aware of-there are no "short-cuts" for serving probation time-much unlike the various short-cuts they get in actual prison time.

    PS, if we' wagered on his -)) you'd owe me a sifter of Cognac ;-))
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 Member

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    Cheers,

    As stated in my first post on this thread I have next to know knowledge of the judial system in the US and have probably even less interest in it if I'm honest.

    I'll take your word for it though not that I understand that it has anything to do with the UK.

    Cheers
     
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  6. razin

    razin Member

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    Richard
    In Post #114 I downloaded a section from the department of justice web site on Sentencing policy and advice to Judges you may read the precise version on #114 or the full version at
    http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov...s_23apr02.html

    With this site and the 2 other references I posted for Drew on #116

    http://www.deceptikons.com/article.asp?file=237.xml

    http://www.answers.com/topic/life-sentence

    it can be deduced that the figure for the average tariff rose from 12.5 years in 2002 to 14 years in 2006 and 16years in 2008 this is in line with the Government sentencing policy that the tariff will rise year on year, it is also significant that the average time served is invariably more than the tariff requirement. So this idea of 7-10 years for a life sentance is incorrect.

    For member who are not British please review the appropriate section in the web site answers -life sentences -it covers most major jurisdictions and seems fairly accurate and up to date.

    C. Evans
    Parole of 10 years does not apply to Britain, a Life Prisoner who is released in Britain is on a Life Licence That applies until the "parolee" dies. Any criminal violation automatically means the offender will go to back to jail.

    ~Steve
     
  7. Totenkopf

    Totenkopf אוּרִיאֵל

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    If either of these 2 make it out of Prison I am sure they will be beat to death by a horde of angry citizens. I hope it is a slow death.
     
  8. paratrooper506

    paratrooper506 Member

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    I,m hoping the death penalty is put back in to action if it were it would bring back the real america the one that earned its reputation in blood
     
  9. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Hi Razin--I realize that the time I posted for a parolee int the same as in the UK. I was only talking about the time length of what one in Texas has to go through. Of course, it also depends on what kind of Felony he committed which will determine length of parole time.
     
  10. chocapic

    chocapic Member

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    I'm opposed to death penalty because Jesus said killing people is bad.
     
  11. Totenkopf

    Totenkopf אוּרִיאֵל

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    "Any eye for an eye" applies here I think.
     
  12. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    I wanted to be finished with this but what the heck..

    Eye for eye, bible et al...could go round all day quoting.

    But if you do quote the bible etc, not you Totenkopf, anybody...then you obviously respect its writings...so I'll ask the question Chocopic loosely referes to..

    What would Jesus do? And would you not go by what he says and does?

    I'm not that relgious, so would in fact be intrigued by any answers either way.
     
  13. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    1. Revenge and justice are very different things.
    2. There is no way of being 100% sure that someone is guilty, ergo there can never be enough certainty to take that life.
    3. Death isn't that much of a punishment, life in prison (and by that I mean life in a small cell with a bucket, a sink, 3 meals a day and a couple of books a week kind of thing) is IMHO far worse.

    That said, I find it quite entertaining to see Carl arguing about biblical law with a man who (if my information is correct, apologies if not Friedrich) has actually devoted his life to it and it's study. That said, if you are going to start quoting the bible how about 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone.' What about 'thou shalt not kill'? If you are going to start throwing around old testament maxims, I take it you are also kosher and don't use your PC during the Sabbath?

    As a final thought I give you this:
    Matthew 5:38–39: You have heard that it was said, “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.” But I tell you, do not resist an evil person.

    It seems fairly clear that Jesus himself wouldn't condone the death penalty.
     
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  14. razin

    razin Member

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    Urqh
    Anyone can end it now by not responding, but obviously people still want to respond.

    I explained the "eye for an eye" thing previously , the correct quote from Genesis which allows execution of murderers is;-

    "If a man kills, by man shall he be killed"

    what would Jesus do -unfortunately i'm not a Christian but 4 points

    1) Jesus said "love thy neighbour as yourself,"

    therefore if you accept that if you commit murder you should be put to death then the same standard applies to your neighbour- anyone who is a Christian or a Jew will accept- should even demand the punishment laid down in the good book, the Moromons call it the Blood Debt- only by accepting your punishment, in the case of murder-death, can your spirit be cleansed.

    2). Jesus said, "render that which is Caesar's unto Caesar" -in other words obey the law.

    3). futher he said "those who are without sin shall cast the first stone" that is, be slow to judge others, as by it you will be judged

    finally and it is telling to Clive's original post Jesus said,

    4). "he who harms these(children) it would be better had he never been born"

    that doesn't need explaination, I feel we sometimes loose sight of the enormity of this crime. I have said I would be willing to accept Vengance killing but as I re-read the original post before writng this, I thought there is no-one to take vengance for this child, her mother the very person who we all turn to as children failed her and therefore she and her creep lover deserve nothing but the vengance of the Allmighty.

    Failing that she is not going to survive long in the big house.

    ~Steve
     
  15. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    And my favourite..Forgive them father for they have sinned...

    Dad...leave out on the lightnng bolts...well for now anyway.
     
  16. razin

    razin Member

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    Urqh

    It's "forgive them father, for they know not what they do"

    Although your intention is good -even v.good

    regards

    Steve
     
  17. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    Interesting posts of late. Nobody can and ever will be the perfect Christian. Those who are not expect Christians to be perfect. Christians on the other hand tend to use the bible as a shield to judge others. Fact of the matter is that regardless of what we believe, we as mankind are not perfect. Emotion is the ruler of our bodies. What would Jesus do is a good rule of thumb but difficult to keep at all times.

    This is not to mean that we should not try to be and do 'good' whether you are religous or not. We all reap what we sow. If only it was as simple as that.
     
  18. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Sorry, long time since I've had to revert to any religious quotations...well not since Sister Pherphane last hit me across the hand with a six inch ruler for not getting the staions of the cross right....Then it could have been worse...me old mum had to do it in Latin.
     
  19. Timo

    Timo Member

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    Yes, I still oppose the death penalty. And in this particular case I even think the death penalty would have been the easy way out for the killers compared to life imprisonment. Especially if one takes in mind that what these two did won't exactly win the hearts of the other prisoners and the prison guards and staff (and that's an understatement).
     
  20. razin

    razin Member

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    Unfortunately a bucket offends against their human rights,

    Kashrut does not apply to non Jews.

    As to Sabbath, Christians don't keep Shabbat therefore it is acceptable to use a computer for recreational purposes and study on the Christian day of rest.

    Jesus said "the sabbath was made for man, not man was made for the sabbath"

    To my knowledge only 7 day Adventist keep Shabbat within the Hebrew sence, and even then they breach the distance regulations by attanding their churches,

    ~Steve
     
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