Discussion in 'Military History' started by C.Evans, Jan 19, 2011.
Don't know about the DNA but you got the genes , no doubt about that.
Hi Tex, unfortunately, they no longer do. Its been at least 20 or so years since I last heard that he was celebrated anywhere here.
Hi Price, Lady and all.
Price, thats a great story and and its nice to see that they shared the same reasons as Lee did when choosing to fight for the South. Im not sure what reasons any of my ancestors has except that they were opposed to the North bossing the South around. As far as I have learned, nobody in my family tree, ever owned a slave and most were against slavery. Most people who just don't know, don't realize that slavery was not the main issue and that most people were anti-slavery to begin with.
Glad to see that the Georgia Colors still exist.
As for kids going to UT to learn the correct truth? there is almost no hope for that happening.
Funny you should speak of George, a good friend of mine who lives in my old hometown, is also related to George Washington as well as George Armstrong Custer. Her name is Terri Nix-now Terri Hayes ;-))
Having the opportunity to live in the south (Tennessee) and the north (Michigan) I'd sure like to kick the piss out the idiots up here that fly the southern battle flag when they don't even know what it means or what it stands for. I don't think that the South will rise again in the form of another civil war, but I do wish more people understood the history and suffering behind the whole cause.
You're exactly right! It has unfortunately been co-opted by people that assign it meaning it did not have.
This is the battle flag:
This is the only authorized non-military context the battle flag should be used in.:eyebrows:
If they want to use a Confederate flag to make a political/social statement why not use the national flag that more accurately represents the government, a political entity.
Early war this flag was carried by troops, but it is more closely associated with governmental entities than military units.
For non-southerners to understand why there is a difference, let me use the following picture.
You'll notice these idiots are flying several different flags, one CSA battle flag, two American flags, two different Nazi flags and a state of California flag. All of us that see the American Flags, know that because these 'tards fly "Old Glory" it would be inaccurate to start viewing it as a symbol of hate. Who here thinks that by flying the California State flag it reflects the views of the majority of Californians?
Btw Luke, what part of Tennessee did you live in?
As an aside, I don't fly the Confederate Battle Flag. The only colors I fly outside my house are the American Flag and the Colors of the United States Marine Corps. I do respect the Confederate Battle Flag because it represents, to me, the courage, fidelity and fighting ability of the soldiers.
There are a number of other southern battleflags that people don't readily recognize, and whose legacy is carried on in the modern State Flags:
North Carolina State Flag
North Carolina Battle Flag
Note the two dates. The date the colony of North Carolina declared independance from Great Britain and the date they seceeded from the Union. The current state flag retains the former date.
Texas State Flag.
Texas Battle Flag
This particular battle flag, is the battle flag of the 1st Texas Infantry CSA. It's faded and tattered (with good reason) but take away the battle honors, Seven Pines and Gaines Farm, and it's the same flag.
Heres some history on this flag:
"This Texas Flag was carried by the 1st Texas Infantry into the Cornfield at Sharpsburg. After 20 minutes of savage fighting, 82.3% of the regiment was dead or wounded, the highest casualty rate suffered by any unit during the war. After seven color bearers were killed carrying the flag, it was found on the field after the battle, surrounded by dead Texans. Returned to Texas by the Federal Government in 1905, it is currently undergoing conservation."
South Carolina State Flag
Big Red, also called the Secession Flag, is most closely associated with the "Citadel Cadets", who first carried it, was a South Carlina battle flag carried by a number of South Carolina units. You still these flying all over South Carolina today but most people don't realize what it symbolizes.
The Hardee's Corps Flag, named after Gen. William J. Hardee
Hardee fought in the Seminole War, Mexican War, taught tactics at West Point, was Commandant of Cadets from 1856-1860 and wrote the Infantry Manual both sides used during the war. He resigned from the Army and went south when his native state of Georgia seceeded, and was appointed an officer in the southern armies.
Here's his Corps Flag.
Hardee's Corps Flag, Army of Tennessee.
Hardee Corps Flag of 17th Tennessee Regiment CSA. The interesting thing about the Hardee's Corps Flag is that when the Army of Tennessee was issued new flags in 1864, these regiments refused to surrender their flags and insisted on retaining them.
This is one of the 1864 issue Army of Tennessee Flags. This particular example is from the 65th Georgia Infantry.
Also what most recognize as the Southern Battle Flag today, is incorrectly referred two as the Stars and Bars when their correct nickname is the "Southern Cross".
Stars and Bars flag.
Southern Cross flags.
The cross was adopted because of the south's strong Scottish and Irish heritage.
The St. Andrew's Cross-Scotland
St. Patrick's Cross-Ireland
Which brings us to the Alabama State Flag.
Alabama State Flag.
Florida State Flag.
It is often stated that these two flags adoption was based upon state heritage and their resemblance to the Confederate Battle Flag.
And Mississippi, wonder what theirs synbolizes?
Well, I've been long winded enough but, military and flag heraldry has long fascinated me. Symbols do mean things. It's just unfortunate that people misuse them and cause their original/actual meaning to be obscured.
I'll end with my favorite, most inspirational and most symbolic flag.
I lived in Knoxville, but was a weekend roamer. Spent some time in your neck of the woods.
I think the South deserved to win, simply cos their Generals had the best names!!!
Nathan Bedford Forrest
Patrick Ronayne Cleburne
Jubal Anderson Early
Know Knoxville well, attended to UT there. Went back as part of Reagan's color guard for the 1982 World's Fair. Some of the world's worst traffic, because they're always working on the roads, but that's more than made up for by it's proximity to the TN/NC mountains.
the original flag of Mississipi was inspired by the Magnolia and first used in 1861 and remained official until 1894.
Yes, but the North had the best name of all: Lincoln.
I guess they finally finished the I-40 interchange...I always hated that drive from work every day, it took me 45 minutes to an hour to make the 12 mile drive.
Speaking of Magnolias. You can see these all over Austin and are very pretty when in bloom.
Replace that name with Jeff Davis, and ill actually agree with you one one thing.
Jefferson seems a good compromise, he was a Virginian.
I was thinking "Lee" myself.
Posted by Skipper:
You are correct mon Skipper, but what do the other elements mean?
Mississippi did adopt it's first state flag in 1861, the flag you posted. But now, as Paul Harvey used to say, "here's the rest of the story".
The canton consists of the Bonnie Blue Flag the first unoffical Battle Flag of the seceeded states, which was used extensively during the early part of 1861, and saw limited use thereafter.
This flag didn't first appear during the Civil War it had quite a revolutionary history pre-Civil War.
"The first recorded use of the lone star flag dates to 1810. On September 11, 1810 a troop of West Florida dragoons set out for the provincial capitol at Baton Rouge under this flag. They were joined by other republican forces and captured Baton Rouge, imprisoned the Governor and on September 23, 1810 raised their Bonnie Blue flag over the Fort of Baton Rouge. Three days later the president of the West Florida Convention, signed a Declaration of Independence and the flag became the emblem of a new republic. By December 10, the flag of the United States replaced the Bonnie Blue after President Madison issued a proclamation declaring West Florida under the jurisdiction of the Governor of the Louisiana Territory. With this rebellion in mind, this flag was used by the Republic of Texas from 1836 to 1839. On January 9, 1861 the convention of the People of Mississippi adopted an Ordinance of Secession. With this announcement the Bonnie Blue flag was raised over the capitol building in Jackson. Harry McCarthy was so inspired that he wrote a song entitled "The Bonnie Blue Flag" which became the second most popular patriotic song of the Confederacy. The Confederate government did not adopt this flag but the people did and the lone star flags were adopted in some form in five of the southern States that adopted new flags in 1861."
Confederate Flags - Bonnie Blue flag
Here's the song, listen to the lyrics it's not subtle.
The red bar along the fly end is a somewhat common element in flags with white fields because when the wind isn't blowing it appears to be a flag of truce/surrender. That's the reason it was incorporated into the Confederate 3rd National flag.
And that's the rest of the story.
Hi Skip, Bobby.
Him being from Virginia was the main reason I choose him over Lee, that and because he was a Statesman and not a (H)eneral ;-)) Im with Bobby though, i'll take General Lee over Davis and anyone else-any day ;-))
Dang it, I cant rep you yet Price but you have been teaching me a lot of stuff thats well worth it ;-))