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ussr didn't need allies to win ww2, survey...

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe October 1939 to February 1943' started by sniper1946, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. panzer kampf gruppen 6

    panzer kampf gruppen 6 Dishonorably Discharged

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    The germans could had taken moscow in the spring/summer of 42 because of the russians moving the bulk of their troops to stalingrad.
     
  2. Fallschirmjäger 1

    Fallschirmjäger 1 Member

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    Yes but they were already struggling with supplies and loss of troops due to the harsh winter conditions of '41/'42.

    Plus the rasputitsa (wet season) slowed them WAY down.
     
  3. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    No ,the Russians moved their reserves to the south AFTER the Germans were striking to the south(direction Caucasus,not Stalingrad )
     
  4. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    True. Stalin was expecting another thrust towards Moscow if not Leningrad.
     
  5. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    The German combatlosses during the winter of 1941-1942 were very low
    The Germans attacked after the spring rasputitza of 1942 ,thus in july 1942 and the autumn rasputitza(october 1942 )did not slow the German advanve in the Caucasus,it was already stopped .
     
  6. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    It wasn't far from the breaking point in 45
    I still don't see the Germans destroing the Soviets. I don't see the Soviets in Berlin either.
     
  7. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    Good point.

    What is being ignored in the whole "Llend-lease necessary?" controversy is that while the Soviets were obviously strong enough to stop the German offensives in 1941, they did not have the requisite equipment and supplies to launch anything more than local offensives to keep the Germans checkmated.

    It was the delivery of American trucks and other vehicles, canned food necessary to feed mobile troops, and explosives to build up supplies of ammo, that allowed the Soviets to launch the sweeping mobile offensives in 1943 that pushed the Germans out of the Soviet Union.

    Without these supplies, the Soviets and Germans might well have become bogged down in a series of local offensives for minor objectives, or even a form of trench warfare based on long lines of improvised fortifications similar to what was seen in WW I.
     
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  8. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    If my memory serves me correctly, Raegan and Gorbachev signed a document ending the cold war and officially labeling it a "draw". The Soviet Union collapsed only a year after this document was signed... ( I dont think that it was the START treaty).


    Can anyone help?
     
  9. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    Reagan and Gorbachev signed the INF treaty. It was Bush Sr. that signed the START treaty. On December 3, 1989, Gorbachev and George H. W. Bush, declared the Cold War over at the Malta Summit; a year later, the two former rivals were partners in the Gulf War against longtime Soviet ally Iraq.
     
  10. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    I think you are referring to the INF treaty of 1987. It kind of replaced the START talks, which weren't going anywhere.
    (p. 11 of the article)

    Read more:
    The Road to Zero - TIME

    [​IMG]
    Ronald Reagan Picture - Reagan and Gorbachev Signing a Treaty
     
  11. Greg Canellis

    Greg Canellis Member

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    I agree! My father's unit, the 8th Infantry Division met the advancing Russian units at Schwerin, Germany. Many vets recalled seeing American jeeps and trucks in Russian units in deplorable condition: engine hoods, doors, etc held closed by string, mis-matched tires, and other forms of disrepair. It appears the Russians ran their American vehicles into the ground, and could not maintain them properly. But at least they had vehicles with American help.

    Greg C.
     
  12. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Thanks guys.

    Any info on "officially labeling the cold War as a draw"?

    I remembering reading this somewhere but can not find the article now. This is haunted however, by the fact that the Soviet Union collapsed a year or so after Reagan claimed no winner and is regarded as a loss?


    Same treaty?
     
  13. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    I don't recall the quote of it being called a "draw" precisely, but I would assume that when a government ceases to exist that could be considered a "loss"!
     
  14. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    No argument there! :D

    The point that I was trying to make was that the document calling the Cold War officially over and labeled it a draw was signed 1 year before the collapse of the Soviet Union....

    Ahhh, oh well, I might very well be mistaking...
     
  15. froek

    froek Member

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    They were going downwards in 1942/43 and went upwards when the Germans had to retreat.
     
  16. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    did they ? And it which aspects ?
     
  17. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    The Heer had 95 divisions along the coast from Norway to Greece in 1944. If 2/3 of them had been free to go to Russia things might have been very different. And if England was out of the war Germany might have had more luck getting supplies into the country.
     
  18. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    And before Overlord there was already a second front :thousands of AA guns and hundred of thousands of soldiers trying to protect Germany from the allied bombings.
     
  19. olegbabich

    olegbabich Member

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    My Grandfather always talked about the winter of 41. For many frontline divisions American canned meat was the main food group for weeks at a time.
     
  20. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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