What if Hitler listened to Rundstedt and withdrew to Poland in 1942

Ah ha.... so if German generals were the ones meddeling in the offensive and not Hitler, the Russian's would have lost ?

 

That is very hard to say, but i do think if Hitler had a hands off approach and allowed his Generals to do what they were trained to do then yes, i believe the Soviets would have certainly have lost the war, but having said that i also believe that there were several worry warts in the German General ranks Rundstedt was one of the worse, it was he that gave the gloomy report that led to the eventual escape of the BEF and the 1st French Army at Dunkerque.

But in the end Hitler ignored Rundtstedt, and that extended the war by at least two years, but in the end Hitler and Hitler alone cost Germany victory, he was the best weapon the Allies had.

 

How so??

Silly me and here I thought that it was the Russian soldier.

 

You know damn well what i mean.

 

Little sensitive are we? very well, according to your explanation or reason for Germany loosing the war was due to Hitler, well then using your own reasoning, would it not be fair to say that the reason the Soviets were loosing in 41' was simply due to Stalin as he just like Hitler took full control of the military operations instead of his generals which in the beginning of the war cost millions of lives?

 

Both Stalin, Hitler and Churchills meddling in military affairs was costly.
Stalin learned to give his generals a bit of space and got results, Churchill pretty much the same. Hitler on the other hand had meddled when the blitzkrieg was on it's top. He figured that his personal willpower and boldness was an important factor (quite true) so he continnued to impose his views on the generals. However the Blitzkrieg died in 1941, and the tide turned against the germans. The war could have ended in 1943 if it wasn't for the brilliant training of German junior commanders. The common understanding of doctrine in the German army. The appliance of forced/slave labour in the german war industry. And Herr Hitler himself urging the Wehrmacht on for 4 more years.

 

Not sensitve but annoyed, i will address the original thread question and that had Hitler agreed with the habitual worry wart Rundstedt Germany would have lost the war at least two years earlier. I mean falling back to the original starting point of Operation Barbarossa as what has been asserted in the original thread question would not only allow the Soviets to advance several hundred kilometres without much loss but for the Germans to reclaim that evacuated territory would be suicidal.

 

Roddoss, I think you are simplifying too much. A decision process of this magnitude is a very complex machine, it does not depend only on Hitler's or anybody's wills or whims (problem took off in earnest when Hitler became convinced it did...).

A high command decision depends on a plan elaborated by the general staff, with several alternatives which is then submitted to the higher authority approval. Of course the higher authority will generate plan ideas or directives, but the making up of the plan is mostly a logistical affair which tends to become a lot boring for more fired up personalities.

If you want an example, look up the build up for the Kursk operation and the alterations the plan took till it reached it's final form. The idea was not Hitler's, the make up of the plan was entirely OKH, and Hitler only intervened to delay it to make sure the Panthers had their chance to take part. Remember this was the offensive Hitler was telling Manstein it turned his stomach.

Of course Hitler's meddling was important and progressively worse as the war wore on, but for another example the delays in Barbarossa were all created by several layers of German generals tripping over their own shoelaces.

You can't simply eliminate the General Staffs responsibilities, as they were crucial and all-pervading. Hitler issued directives, the OKW and OKH drew the plans.

 

Hitler did listen to Rundstedt, he stopped the panzers before they reached Dunkirk

 

Yes he did, very good point and why because Rundstedt paniced, he gave a very gloomy report that eventually led to the BEF and 1st French QArmy evacuating to England.

And to all those who have somewhat slammed me for my viewpoint, what would have happened if the Fuhrer had listened to Rundstedt a second time around and pulled back to the original starting point of Operation Barbarossa allowing the Soviet Army to advance a further several hundred kilometres without much bloodshed, you obviously know more than me on the subject so i hand it back to you Eintsteins.

 

Ok, im just going to say what i think,

While withdrawing back to Poland is not such a bad idea it also has its problems. For the german army to go and take so much in such little time and just pick up and give it back to the Russians would mean total collapse in moral.

Not to mention just straight out leaving could give the Russians the oppertunity to follow the Germans and start harrasing there rear, Which could prevent them from making a defence of Poland.

And then it means abandoning the Baltic states, Which hatted the Russians alot and also abandoning the Ukrain which had Hitler not said "NO" could have supplied 1,000,000 willing soilders.

The only possibilty they would have would be a fighting retreat over a 6 month period which also give time to build defences at key areas.