Attitudes toward the Japanese?

Many did Fight to the Death, to Surrender was considered to be dishonorable.

 

I was just reading about some of the Japanese atrocities in WWII and now I'm pissed of all over again at them. Savage, savage acts of pure evil!

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres_pacific.html

 

Many of their acts during the war were quite brutal yes, but you must look at the culture that they had lived in and the traditions the military had in its past before calling it pure evil. War is hell is it not?

I hope you dont mean that you are pissed at todays Japan because of what some of their grandfathers did.

 

And while George Duncan's site has a great deal of interesting "data" in it, some of it is incorrect and perhaps slightly exaggerated for "impact". Not saying it is false, just perhaps a bit overstated in some areas.

You have heard of the term "sins of the fathers" have you not? One may be "pissed off" at that separate and completely alien to western eyes culture of the mid-twentieth century, but not at the Japan of today.

 

Then again that is your personal opinion. Playing Devil's advocate here, they could have thought by killing civilians they could be putting down war effort. Like the allied bombing of Dresden for ex.

 

Patriotism has always been the most potent drug in human history, it fills your veins like an adrenaline rush, unleashing fury and fervor that you never knew you had. The "Banzai spirit" of Japan in the early 1900s was something that the youth became a part of, with children having the seeds of a nationalist in them at a very young age.

Charging at your enemy in an animal rage and determination; screaming "Long live the emperor" with no concern for your well being is something the world Never experienced before and likely will never see again at such an extreme level, so who are we to judge them when we don't know of the things that went on in their head?

As I said, war is hell.

 

All right guys I am going to stop the two of you there.

Lets us be clear that all nation during the war commited attoricties, and some more than others, are they comparable? Some are, yes, but not all such as the holocaust.

But in terms of the Japanese as the opening post reference stated they were brought up to go to war, they were brought up to fight and in many ways they were still not a modern country, more like a modern country with still an old fashioned view to war and the world, some of it is certainly interesting and honourable as to how devoted a soldier can be to some one they have never evern met.

 

I agree. As far as I know about Japanese culture, honor was important, so it is most likely death before surrender or they would lose their honor, or at least that's how it goes. Warriors like the samurai in feudal Japan would fight to the death and either win or die. If you guys have seen samurai movies or Japanese dramas, you might know what I may be talking about. As far as strategy goes, it seems that the way the Japanese fought early in the war was similar to the game of Go, in which the victor has the most territory. Their strategies are also based on Sun Tzu's The Art of War, in which a victory is based on information, deception, and movement. With that, they managed to have the Allies on the run for a while until they sunk their carriers. If Yamamoto hadn't died before the war was over and continued his Go-based strategy, the war might have been very different from that point on. To tell the truth, the attitude toward the Japanese during the war was mainly due to fear of what they are capable of.

 

Correct. Pearl Harbor gave the American public the assumption that the Japanese were a sneaky, cunning group who would fight America internally rather than externally. (reason for internment camps)

 

The reason for the "internment camps" was known fifth-column activity on the West Coast.

 

There was know German spy activity but there were no German 'internment' camps.

Interestingly in Britain, Italians, Germans and other foreigners (and some foreign jews) were put into internment camps, though their camps were more towns than camps.

 

Actually there were camps for Italian and Germans as well, the numbers weren't as large in comparison to their population numbers in America, but they existed. Look up Crystal City Texas, and Ft. Missoula Montana.

In fact the last German and German-Americans held weren't released from Ellis Island until well after the war, and that was because nobody would accept them back.

 

There we go, it wasn't as sometimes stated "only the Japanese-Americans". America during war time was an equal opportunity relocater, and protector against preceived dangers.

Dec. 11, 1941: US declares war on Germany and Italy in response to their declaration of war on the USA.

During WW2, the American government had to do its utmost to ensure domestic security against dangerous elements in its midst. But perhaps it should have exercised greater vigilance to protect the liberties of those most vulnerable because of their ethnic ties to enemy nations.

Some were dangerous enemy aliens without doubt, but many more were assumed guilty and never able to prove their innocence. Admittedly, US wartime governmental actions are difficult to assess all these decades later, even through the 20/20 lens of hindsight.

Jan. 1942: Pursuant to Presidential Proclamation 2525-2527 and 2537 (issued Jan.14, 1942), the Attorney General issues regulations requiring application for and issuance of certificates of identification to all "enemy aliens" aged 14 and older and outlining restrictions on their movement and property ownership rights.

Approximately one million enemy aliens re-register, including 300,000 German-born aliens, which was the 2nd largest immigrant group at that time. The largest single group were from Great Britain, it’s Commonwealth and Dominions, and we (America) were allied with the UK, not at war with them.

In early 1942 all applications are forwarded to the Department of Justice's Alien Registration Division and the FBI. Any change of address, employment or name must be reported to the FBI. Enemy aliens may not enter federally designated restricted areas. If enemy aliens violate these or other applicable regulations, they are subject to "arrest, detention and internment for the duration of the war."

Jan.- Feb. 1942: In cooperation with the military, the DOJ (Department of Justice) establishes numerous small prohibited zones strictly forbidden to all enemy aliens. DOJ also establishes extensive "restricted areas" in which enemy aliens (Italians, Germans, and Japanese) are subject to stringent curfew and travel restrictions, particularly on the East and West Coasts and areas surrounding the Great Lakes.

Feb. 19, 1942: Roosevelt signs Executive Order 9066 authorizing the Secretary of War to define military areas in which "the right of any person to enter, remain in or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions" are deemed necessary or desirable. This order applies to all "enemy" nationalities.

March 11, 1942: Executive Order 9095 creates the Office of the Alien Property Custodian which gives the Custodian discretionary, plenary authority over all alien property interests. Many internee assets were frozen, creating immediate financial catastrophe for affected families.

Feb.-April 1942: Congress ratifies Executive Order 9066 authorizing the imposition of sanctions for violations of the order. Extensive military zones established on the east and west coasts, significantly expanding upon those originally created by DOJ, and in certain areas around the Great Lakes.

Gen. John DeWitt issues a series of Public Proclamations creating Western Defense Command military areas and outlining curfews, travel restrictions and exclusion provisions, among other things, applicable to German, Japanese and Italian aliens, as well as Japanese-American citizens. By military order, thousands of German-American, Japanese-American and Italian-American aliens are required leave military areas in the continental USA.

1942 US Government initiated exchanges of approximately 2,000 German internees for Americans held in Germany. Six exchange voyages carried many families to Germany, including American-born children and US citizen spouses of German alien internees. Upon arrival in war-ravaged Germany, exchangees were unexpected and unwanted by their families. Many are suspected of being spies. Families with young children, some even born during the trip to Germany, had to make their own way to family homes through hazardous countryside. Some men were beaten and arrested by the Gestapo as spies and put in camps, leaving their families destitute again.

1942 –1945 Approximately 20,000 German aliens and German Americans are arrested, interned, excluded, paroled, and some then exchanged with Germany. Few know why they are interned or for how long. Some are granted re-hearings, pursuant to which an even smaller number are released. Those released were generally subject to parole restrictions. Internees are pressured to repatriate.

There were six exchanges with Nazi Germany, primarily of civilians. One single trip of the SS Gripsholm in January 1945 involves 1,000 exchangees for American POWs.

 

Religon...not patriotism, is the "opiate of the masses".(Marx)

The people of Japan had let religon, (Emperor worship), and politics, (military government), ride in the same cart. Always a dangerous thing to do for any nation.

The Western world does not preach Montesque's "Seperation of Powers Doctrine", (1759), for nothing.

Look what happens in the middle East when religon and politics are mixed to form the basis of governance. This is a lesson of government that George Bush Jnr. just did not understand either. For the record....

"The State, the Church, and the Judiciary, should all have seperate lines of power, or areas of responsibility that do not cross over or overlap."

Ever wondered why China will rule the globe?...It's not just numbers. It's because the State is totally seperate from the religon of the people. They get into trouble when their lines of power between the state and the judiciary cross over.

Once they sort this abberation in their system out, they will take the seat of Empire that has been held by the Unitesd states of america ever since Woodrow Wilson turned up in Paris in 1919 with the rest of Europe's statesmen expecting Wilson to mediate.

The dawn of the "Chinese Power Bloc" is here.

The "Pax Americana" is in decline....and will fall, as all Empires do. But, just as Edward Gibbon noted about Rome, the fall of the American Peace will be gradual and slow....verrrrry slow.....

 

Marx was wrong. Nationalism was responsible for two devastating World Wars.Using religion also doesnt explain the centuries of warfare between France and England, the wars of Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome, the barbarian invasions of Europe, The Cold War, the American Civil War, the English Civil War....religion is very much overstated as a cause of war.

Greed is incontestably the number one reason for war. Nothing even comes close.

Japan was dominated by a military junta that operated independently of the Emperor. They revered him, but his power was largely symbolic.There reasoning for was economic expansion and domination of Asia.

IF China becomes the next unipolar power, it will be because they successful adapted free markey principles to an authoritarian state. However, that has of yet to be proven. China has a history of internal strife and with almost two billion souls, many of whom are impoverished farmers, it won't take much to start a civil war.

It should be interesting to see a liberal economy in a country run by an illiberal government. Can such a contradiction long last?

 

I almost married a Hawaiian-born japanese woman and have always been drawn towards the Pacific War and I feel the need to comment on this subject. Sorry if I'm interrupting.

I think that the fall of Nanjing and the subsequent atrocities that occurred there were dispicable and atrocious. No it doesn't compare to the haulocaust...Not even close. It was how feral the bloodlust was and the scale of the violence that was so horrible. I think that and the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor were the two main factors that led to the internment camps here. We had one and a german POW camp here in my town. It was a different time for all with different views on race than most of the world posesses now.

One thing being American that I see sometimes is the anger and even belligerence towards the Germans and Japanese about the holocaust and Nanjing. Any time I feel emotional about these and other atrocities I hear about, I remember that it was my own people who actually came far closer than them to succeeding at eliminating another race from the planet in our march west, or Manifest Destiny. If you want to know about one of the most horrific attempts at genocide read up on that.

It is a good thing to study the past and learn from it, but dwelling in it and allowing the understanding of violence to lead to more violence bears only rotten fruit.

 

A WRA Relocation Center wasn't a DOJ internment camp. That's where people get confused because these days everything is called an "internment camp".

Internment camps were run by the Department of Justice and held only enemy aliens who had been deemed security risks (after being given individual hearings) and their U.S. citizen family members who were allowed at their choice to stay with them. Internees included 10,995 Germans, 16, 849 Japanese (5,589 who voluntarily renounced U.S. citizenship and became enemy aliens), 3,278 Italians, 52 Hungarians, 25 Romanians, 5 Bulgarians, and 161 classified as “other" Only a small fraction of enemy aliens were interned. Japanese citizens with families were sent to Crystal City, Texas and lived side-by-side with German and Italian families. Single men were sent to internment camps in other states. Not all enemy aliens were placed in internment camps, and no American citizen was forcefully placed in an internment camp. If you were interned it was determined that you, a spouse or parent was an enemy alien and a security risk.

That said, The Tolan committee looked very closely at the need to evacuate Germans and Italians from the West Coast combat zones, also.

It was learned that the vast majority of the German enemy aliens were Jewish Germans who had escaped Hitler's oppression starting in the early 1930's. The Italians were by and large illiterate farmers who had never gotten around to applying for citizenship.

After careful thought and discussion it was decided these people were not a threat to the West Coast combat zones to the extent the ethnic Japanese were a threat even though plans were in place to evacuate ethnic Germans and Italians from the West Coast as late as March 1942.

To argue there must be some kind of proportionality between Germans, Italians and Japanese because they all happen to be the enemy-aliens without acknowledging the extent of the security threat from ethnic Germans/Italians compared to ethnic Japanese didn't make sense to political and military leaders in a time of war when we were losing the war.

Besides, Japanese enemy-aliens moved east to continue their lives, too. Read "An Enemy Among Friends" by Kiyoaki Murata.