Bombing of Dresden--and for what?

I think there needs to be a little cleaning of the house on this thread ..........

say Hop where are you getting your figures from ~ reference or ?

E `

 

The figures for Hamburg are from The Battle of Hamburg by Martin Middlebrook. Middlebrook quotes the USSBS for the figures on workers at Blohm und Voss, and "the Diary of Rüstungsinspektion X, Bundesarchiv document RW20-10/20" for the figures on Hamburg workers as a whole.

The Bomber Command figures are the official statistics.

 

Read that operation Thunderclap was first ready in August 1944. I was hoping I could get help with the original objective if possible? Thanx for any info!

 

>>>To attack and kill civillians at 28 thousand feet and not having the guts to look into the eyes of a child you are attempting to burn to death is an act of cowardice>>>>

I think you are trying to impose todays morality to desperate times in 1945.

 

Sixty-three years after the event, the Dresden thread continues to arouse passions amongst contributors to this forum.

By virtue of the simple fact that many, if not most, of the original participants are no longer with us, it is painfully obvious that it is the more vociferous posters who continue to claim that they and they alone understand what really motivated “Bomber” Harris in those dark and terrible days of World War II.

May I ask you to consider what it was like to have lived through those times and further ask you to visualise what it was like to have lived through the German bombing of our major cities on a nightly basis? We are not talking hindsight here… you are being asked to imagine yourself as being one of those thousands of civilians who went into their shelters at night and, if they were being truly honest, could not say to themselves “In the morning, I will be alive”.

My “personal” war started at the tender age of sixteen and, until I was called to arms at the age of nineteen I witnessed, both as a civilian and a Civil Defence worker, the horrors of day and night-time bombing in London.

My war time service and that of my other four serving brothers is fairly well chronicled on other websites and so I will not dwell on it here but I will tell you about my dear brother Jack who, as a Rear Gunner in a Lancaster bomber, died over Nuremberg on the 15th of March 1945.

Jack survived 14 previous bombing raids, one of which was over Dresden, and during my later research into his death I was given access to various documents including the item shown below which describes a bombing run over Dresden on the 13th of Feb 1945.

Notice the “Purpose of the raid” as detailed and recorded on the actual night in question.
It clearly states "The purpose of the raid was to assist the Red Army by causing confusion behind the enemy's lines on the Eastern Front"
Dresden in 1945 was just another target in the war against the Third Reich and my late brother, who was never to live to have the benefits of hindsight, would have also have regarded it as such.

Ron Goldstein

 

whats curious to me is that other German cities also "took it in the pants" and one never hears of the casualties involved nor care........

war is war, people die, sounds horrific because it is

E ~

 

Seems to me most of you forget that Dresden had one of the few telephone
links working, one of the last large railway systems in operation plus many factories making war material. No just a nice little town for arts only. If
bombing Dresden meant one small bit of safety for my and my friends and buddies fighting as infantrymen, so be it. No punches pulled. Just a foot slogging war and the devil take hindmost. We only did to them what they wanted to do to us. Just maybe some of you behind the line guys or civilians dont understand war from a dogfaces eyes. One less city to have to die for in capturing it.

 

the industry of Dresden for the war-effort was removed before the bombing .... nobody is forgetting anything it was a gateway for civilians and military to escape to the west from the Soviet hordes whom were approaching in an incredible rate

 

I've read that they were making V2 parts in Dresden

 

nope the city was known for a major R.R. junction as well as communique centre, though correspondance of many workers and civilians in the city before the bombing - thunderclap as it was known and it was more than just Dresden, the "industry" was moved so it would not fall into Soviet hands. there was much foresight in this but as to the overall aerial defenses and Ground flak the RAF-bomber command had pulled a real spoof on the LW on this night of the raid, not much was left for the US heavies to pulverize into dust. Some 40 years ago I did a paper for private studies on why and how the LW failed so miserably and were totally blind-folded

 

The thread that never dies.

I'm beginning to wish i'd never even started this thread but I did so at the time, because of a few Documentaries I had seen the day or so before posting here. Also, back in those days, I was younger and dumber, and some of my opinions have changed ala because of getting more education on the subject. Anyway, I hope this thread is not the cause of anyone losing any friends over it-it aint worth it. Just my Nickles worth-(price has gone up-like everything else has.)

Anyone for reviving that thread I started a few years ago about the Malmedy Massacre? I don't recall that one getting too far outta hand. ;-))

 

well we just won't let it get outta hand C, there is still so much myth surrounding the pounding the Allies gave the Germans during that winter week. It was on schedule and however we deem the tactics used it certainly worked as a moral breaker in some respects for the German people. Relatives of mine in central Germany got strafed by P-51's and can tell you they always looked all around for any type of a/c knowing almost without doubt it would not be their's screaming overhead in those closing days of 1945.

if the screws need to be born in then so be it, and an interesting side note C, look at the date you posted before I came on here, and see of the guys on the 1st page how many are still with us ??

 

Thank you Mr. Goldstein for a very thoughtful post, and for sharing the story of your brother.

 

I always find it funny sometimes here and on other forums where someone responds to another poster that hasn't been active or has posted in years LOL.

 

Yes this thread is almost as old as the Frauenkirche itself. It's like the Omympic flame, reactivated every four years or so and for what?......

 

I was thinking the same thing Skipper, it's like beating a dead horse!

 

And sometimes the person who was riding the horse is no longer here to beat it!! LOL

 

Hi E, i'll sit on the sidelines in this one ;-)) Yup, I haven't seen Doc or those others here for years now. Samething as in the I don't like John Wayne thread in the FFZ. It never fails to amaze me at how ignorant some folks are on some topics-specially myself--until we come back years later. Also, im still interested in seeing a revival of that Malmedy Massacre thread. Any takers?