Elem Klimov's movie 'Come and See'

This thread has obviously opened a can of worms the size of a bath tub.

Triple C-
Yeah, I eventually got the bit about the partisans dressing up as Germans. I looked on Youtube and somebody had posted a comment explaining the situation just as you did. But many thanks.

Von Poop-
I think for me you have absolutely hit the nail on the head, and bought some much needed perspective back to this thread. Im glad you mentioned J.G Ballard, too. Im a big fan.

'Come and See' is a creative interpretation of historical events. Complaining that it isn't realistic is a bit like saying that Picasso's Guernica is no good because it isn't a realistic picture of the Spanish Civil War.

I see the movie more as a broad brush stroke picture of man's inhumanity to man. Maybe there is something almost unreal or 'cartoonish' about it, but how do we even begin to have a real comprehension of the scale of death and misery on the eastern front during WW2? How can you rationalise around 11 million civiallian deaths? Maybe one of the ways humanity can deal with this kind of stuff is through creative works, which may not be strictly 'realistic'.

It is interesting to note that Klimov has never made another film after 'Come and See', apparently feeling that there was no where else to go after making something so powerful and carthartic.

 

Its a good thing other producers dont think like him. Perhaps Spielberg should have ended his movie carreer after Schindlers list, lol.

 

An interesting article on the Einsatzgruppen, anti partisan operations towards the bottom; http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/29406-why-were-einsatzkommandos-lead-so-many-educated-people.html
JeffinmNUSA

 

Look, I am not calling anybody out but here's the deal.

There is no such thing as detached, mechanical murder. To kill a man in hot blood and in the thick of combat is traumatic even to the best trained of soldiers. The level of victim dehumanization required for the killing defenseless civilians at visual range is so extreme that it would be easy for the perpetrators to make the mental leap from efficiently killing their victims to enjoying the infliction of suffering for its own sake.

This is not an idle speculation. The extraordinary sadism displayed by some are very well documented by rock-solid sources.

The Nazi Germans actually executed one group of German soldiers for committing atrocities with too much relish. The judge who chaired the trial declared that German soldiers must have the will to do what is necessary in eliminating subhumans but they should not enjoy it. This tells me that the higher ups were trying to reinstall discipline by making an example with some men, so there must be visible, glaring incidents like this that prompted drastic action.

Come and See might have exaggerated by combing so many atrocities in one scene. But there is no doubt in my mind that the acts depicted are individually accurate, that they had happened and their portrayal is plausible in the context of the film. The director used his artistic license, and within the reasonable bonds that I think he had observed, there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Maybe he should have done...have you seen Indiana Jones 4...?