GB EU Refferendum June 2016 - Should the GB stay or exit the European Union? BRexit

The Express is a UKIP Fanzine with the balance of Voelkisher beobachter ,. This is some way off balanced commentary.

 

No, they just disagree with you.
And right on cue, there goes Godwin's Law.

 

President Obama came to London today..
Said something that actually influenced my vote...
Wonder if that's legal. - It is great to speak a truth, but, that truth altered my vote.
About Britain being on the back of the queue for trade deals with America in the event of Brexit...
Has me looking that real strong. Like I was like whatever until that made me side with staying in the UK.

President Obama told the UK how it was in regards to the EU and the US.

 

Obama is an ineffectual looser, keeps spouting about GB having to be in the EU to ensure greater security. Don't see the US applying for membership to help seal the deal against ever increasing terrorists. Sounds good but says nothing.

 

Ha... no Ben it was not legal...
Hate to agree with brian but yeah.
Would the US agree to be ruled by the EU or any body- no, don't think so.
Bama pulled the WW2 card- maybe he is reading my bits here.
WW2 vets who died and are buried yonder, would vomit at the way things have gone. They didn't want to die so that Germany and Belgium would make the rules. They didn't die so that sharia would subdue human rights in their own country.

 

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/country/exh19hist.pdf


https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/EU_and_Non-EU_Data.aspx

 

Err, no. I know UKIP and have read the Express

 

Obama broke the current British code for the EU debate. he mentioned......
the war.

Obama is right. The US bailed out Europe twice in the 20th Century because of the mess that resulted from European nationalist aspirations. It cost the USA many lives.

The EU is the European experiment to a way for people to see themselves as Germans, French. Vlaams, Walloon, Iriish English and scots while enjoying common human rights under a second European identity. This is anoble experiment worth persevering with because of the peace in the post 1945 EU. Its a miracle not to have had a European war in my lifetime. I am delighted that neither I nor my children have had to fight in a European war.

Obama is in his rights to plead for us to leave well alone.

While I can understand the logic, and have some sympathy with Brexit logic, the underlying note of fear and hatred of foreigners turns my stomach. I have met these people and had the dubious pleasure of sharing breakfast with John Redwood. He is a fanatic of the swivel eye loon variety. Brexit is peddling nineteeth century nationalism and stoking hatred.

Ripping up the agreements made with our neighbours over forty years is not a friendly act. Nor is the outright hostlity to the hundreds of thousands of EU citizens who live in the UK - not the utter disregard for the future of the million plus Brits who live in the EU

The second rate politicians who lead Brexit claim that they can do a better deal for Britian from outside the EU - but avoiding ever saying what that deal might be. Would you really trust Michael Gove, Boris Johnson and Ian Duncan Smith to deliver?

 

.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-36116726

Only a matter of time before they start playing the theme from 'The Great Escape' at UKIP rallies.

 

Err- equating those who disagree with you to the Nazis is infantile.
But you already knew that...

 

Here is the economic reality. EU double dipped in recession.


Economic policy in the currency war has led to imbalanced economies. Those on the top of the graph below have economic gains from currency issues that lead to more exports than imports.


The UK GDP mirrors the US quite a bit


The US and UK have Central Banks willing to bu back bonds which create liquidity in lending. Contrary to popular belief, currency printing does very little to create cash. Lending does.

In Spain, Greece and Portugal cannot buy back bonds. They cannot manipulate currency for their benefit and cannot compete with Germany and the Netherlands.

GB is in a unique situation in that they have an imbalanced economy but they can buy back bonds and create liquidity.

Depending on whether one is Keynesian or Austrian in Economic Policy thought, the whole situation may end badly regardless. If things get real bad, it will be everyone for itself. Even in the US it will be an interesting battle as state Govt's fail and pension systems in some states are insolvable (actually already are but not fully realized). It will be one hell of a battle in the US over states like Illinois and others with completely broken government budgets. In Europe there is even less cohesiveness.

My guess is that Brits in favor of a Brexit are counting on disaster and a mad scramble to see who can survive the Titanic. The US Federal Reserve helped out Europe. That likely won't happen the next time which may be closer than one thinks.

A lot of this could have been avoided with stronger family growth numbers to help avoid a demographics problem.

The whole situation is difficult. The currency wars will intensify. Tempers will flare.

As an American I find some humor in the whole situation over immigration having sat through a number of holier than thou conversations of Europeans dissing Americans over racial relations and discrimination. Not that those subjects are funny. Things change when the economics change. Huge unemployment problems in a lot of Europe with insolvable pensions.

Economic wars don't end humorously.

​Quantitative Easing has destroyed savings and pensions. All of this stupidity will be our undoing. Mad scramble dead ahead. The quest for inflation is leading us to massive deflation as there is no liquidity. Liquidity trap dead ahead. The question is whether it will be a sharp and relatively short depression (deflation) or a chronic long term on. Also to be seen is how stable countries will be and what alliances are formed.

 

Unlike comparing The EU to Nazi Germany?

 

You can't have 2 identities : you are French, German, etc or you are European . There is no European nation, thus there can be no European state .And Brexit is not the business of Obama : what if Johnson would go to NY and say that Nafta is something wrong ?

 

Utter tripe.

Of course you can have multiple identities; they are not mutually exclusive, humans are not cardboard cutouts, but complex individuals.

Obama is allowed to have an opinion, and express it; that is how humans operate. Johnson can go to NY and say what he likes. Not that anybody is going to care.

 

Yes you can. Americans can be Virginians, New Yorkers or Californians as well as Americans. You can see yourself as a member of a faith, political party or s[pecial interst group that transcends any of these.

The idea that people have one identity is exactly the simplistic nationalist nonsense that caused so many problems in Europe. It is fine for the majority in any region to demand England for the English or <insert land here> for the <insert nationality for here> but even in supposed strong nation states it has never worked fully.

Take a look close to home at the "United" Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Many Britons are Welsh English and Scots, or even Kernow, Yorkshiremen or even Londoners.

 

America is a nation, Europe is not a nation . Thus a German can not be a European , as an inhabitant of Nigeria is not an African:there is no African nation .

European is the collective noun for the inhabitants of Europe;American is the collective noun for the inhabitants of the United States of America ;there is no such thing as the United States of Europe.

 

The US is a bloody market that I want to be a part of.
There is a big block of countries that GB is in at the moment that has announced this.
but GB on its own isn't going to get this deal I want.

So f**k! - Voting to stay in the EU.


Bloody stupid bloody Mayor of London (until this election in May) bloody leader of the bloody Brexit called Obama anti British because of the Kenyan army...

I don't care! - And, mud slinging issues to attack the president with things that I honestly don't care about anyway especially when Obama already sold the case to me with truth about the situation from America and what Brexit could mean.

'Bama knows the WWII card.
You know.

I like that about that guy.

I want big trade deal with US, and being in the EU is the only way I am going to get a real one and not a token one.

 

Maybe the concept of a "nation" is the one which is unhelpful. The "nations " you named. Germany and Nigeria are both artificial creations. Germany was a geographic expression until 1870 and Europe's "Germans" are in the current boundaries of Germany (and Austria) only after Germans were ethnic cleansed from elsewhere after the second world war. The boundaries of Nigera include several different tribes - hence the civil war on the 1970s. The only thing which units Nigeria is its football team.

The United States of America and the European Union are not direct equivalents. The USA was created in the 18th Century as a new kind of state - a federation of states, based on the relatively new concept of a nation state. The Civil War determined the balance of power between the states and the Union in favour of Federal government. America can only call itself a single nation because other cultures were eliminated by ethnic cleansing and a set of American values imposed on and adopted by immigrants.

The European Union too was a new type of organisation. It was created to reconcile the problems caused by too many nation states seeking to exercise too much sovereignty in too small an area. It is a confederation of nation states who share sovereignty for the common good or to diffuse the tensions of nationalism. The balance in power within the EU is perhaps how the USA might have been had concessions been made to accommodate the secessionists to avert the civil war. Europeans sdo occasionally identofy themselves as "Europeans" when supportign team Europe
http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/176620081-fans-support-the-european-team-on-the-first-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7Qd522oen%2F3mPQV646wC9A17MXo87DYQAu2Rt4fNaWvBr%2B5txgszyg8Wpl8hmYqB0qQ%3D%3D

The EU model of shared sovereignty is the best model for peaceful co-existence of peoples with competing claims for sovereignty. It is probably the best hope for other parts of the world which face similar problems to Europe's past.

Which takes us back to Obama mentioning the War. The USA had to step into the Balkans 20 years ago. The EU could not prevent that war, but the prospect of EU membership does seem to have provided a basis for making peace in a troubled corner. Its an experiment which deserves more support.

 

The US was a federation for a short time. It didn't work.

The Civil War did not fully determine the balance of power. It settled the matter of secession.

Ethnic "cleansing" (not the best description considering) took a long time and in some places, especially rural, hasn't been fully adopted. It has only been fairly recently that many cultural differences have been molded together. However, you can go to cities and see big examples of cultures holding together with recent immigrants. Big differences exist between wealth/poor, Black, white, and Hispanic.

There is not a distinctive American culture unless you are describing it as white middle class which doesn't represent hardly the majority anymore.

Nigeria is separated by Christian/Muslim.

One is totally naive to think the EU model is about the common good. They stronger northern nations have different roles compared to the southern struggling nations. Germans don't want to take on Greek debt/pensions and Greeks don't want Germans forcing austerity on them.

The US is going to have a major struggle between states, particularly now that the commodity boom is busted and the so called conservative state are going to struggle. Also, the liberal states who in reality send more to DC than do the more conservative ones (which actually get a cash flow back from DC) are going to be in a big struggle. Illinois is the tip of the iceberg, but who in Wyoming wants to pay for corruption and stupidly arranged pensions?

The world is drowning in debt which contrary to many thinkers will result in major deflation (also known as depression) as the lack of liquidity will eventually kill lending. In other words much of the world will drown from their own saliva.

Will be a mad scramble of rats trying to keep from going down with the ship.

On a major scale GB will have very little to export to the US that they have a major advantage over other nations with. Both countries will be destroying their currency so there will be no benefit. The US dollar is losing it's safe haven value. And that is by design of the Federal Reserve. It is a race to the bottom. It is the EU that will struggle to do that intentionally in comparison to the US and GB. That will cause EU uncertainty, which will eventually do that.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_rlyk6sthc