GB EU Refferendum June 2016 - Should the GB stay or exit the European Union? BRexit

Brexit may have asignificant effect on defence budget for boots on the ground etc, yet the Conservatives are forcing through this week the vote on renewing Trident at a cost of at least £205 billion to the British tax payer while the Labour Party is in disarray.

http://m.plymouthherald.co.uk/significant-cuts-in-the-defence-budget-likely-in-the-wake-of-brexit-vote/story-29495870-detail/story.html

Nursing report on shortages deliberately held back from release prior to Brexit vote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36729108

George Osborne, Chancellor of the Exchequer in the UK preventing the US taking the HSBC to court for money laundering

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36768140

Small clip from BBC political program Question Time about Brexit

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5nI_4uXzD4

And for those who wish to deny or sweep under the carpet the fact that racism has risen sharply since Brexit. It seems easier for some to deny it's happening than to actually condemn it.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/30/post-brexit-racism-five-times-as-many-hate-crimes-reported-since-eu-vote-5977611/

 

Let's have a bit of perspective, though, eh?
1)The NPCC doesn't appear to include Scotland or NI, so it's hardly "nationwide".
http://www.npcc.police.uk/About/NPCCMembership.aspx

2)The link also says-
‘We also cannot determine how many of the reports are linked to the referendum.’
http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/30/post-brexit-racism-five-times-as-many-hate-crimes-reported-since-eu-vote-5977611/#ixzz4EBniNzoP
So enough of the "Britain has suddenly turned racist" propaganda.

3)Again, from the link-
‘In a number of forces, migrants are reporting verbal abuse, negative social media commentary including xenophobic language, anti-migrant leafleting and, in very limited numbers, physical assaults.’
http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/30/post-brexit-racism-five-times-as-many-hate-crimes-reported-since-eu-vote-5977611/#ixzz4EBoqS9rk
"Negative social media commentary"?! So if I opine that I'm worried about the effect of immigration on the national housing shortage, that's a "hate crime", is it? That's an attack on freedom of speech, pure and simple.
And what exactly does "a number of forces" mean? One, two, all of them?

 

We have just two options here: either (i) Britain has suddenly turned racist or (ii) Britain already was racist.

So where do you see propaganda?

 

Or there is mediatic offensive trying to make people that the Britsh are racist. I don't buy it.

 

Neither do I, but I loathe denial and pretending. Some people, somewhere, today, are having troubles because they are of the "wrong" kind.

 

Look no further than your own reply. You've already decided what the only acceptable answers are, despite the fact you don't even live here.
I'm not convinced you're not coming here and trolling on someone's behalf.
Britain hasn't "suddenly turned" anything. Yes, there was racism beforehand and still is, but the way you and others with some kind of agenda are desperately trying to pin it down to the referendum is beyond pathetic.

"Police Scotland-No Rise in Racist Incidents Since Brexit"
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/8731/police-scotland-no-rise-hate-crime-scotland-brexit
Note how it also contradicts the number of incidents the NPCC claimed were reported after the referendum; they say 381 from 23-30th June, while Polce Scotland quotes them as saying the figure was 85 between 23-26 June. Someone's lying, unless there genuinely were another 296 incidents in four days.
And if that is the case, I want to know exactly where these further 296 incidents allegedly happened.
Seems a similar story in Ulster, from what I can glean from this-
"PSNI Supt Paula Hilman said there had been “no major spikes in racist hate crime reported over the past week”, but officers were monitoring the situation closely and she urged anyone impacted by such abuse to get in touch with officers."
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ethnic-minorities-in-ni-warn-of-rise-in-racist-abuse-since-leave-vote-1.2703106
Note the anecdotal evidence comes from a member of Amnesty, a charity whose existence depends on finding something to be offended by. And I'm not impressed by the "toxic GB" comment from the chair of an Ethnic Minorities council either; if that doesn't scream "agenda", I'm b****ered if I know what does.

 

Rather than racism...this is 'Nativism'...yes that's a word. This has nothing to with race directly...

 

It's on a par with Scots being called "Sweaty socks" in England. We don't go screaming racism though, we just break noses.

 

Nobody is saying that Britain as whole has turned racist over night. And Gordon is quite right to point out that the 42% increase in reported incidents over two weeks since Brexit was indeed statistics from England and Wales police force. I do not know the police statistics for Northern Ireland since Brexit and Police Scotland have not recorded any increase.

As Tamino points out though there are those now experiencing problems with racism since Brexit. The few perpetrators of this crime have been empowered by the rhetoric given by both sides, remain and leave. Not so long ago David Cameron was likening the migrants coming to the EU as a swarm of insects and then there was the rhetoric from the Farage camp on the leave side.

People voted to come out of the EU for many reasons. Some believed the NHS would receive £350 million saved from our weekly payments to Brussels and some believed that the whole EU system was undemocratic etc. There are those that still believe we will be able to trade tariff free with the EU market and not have to accept free movement of EU citizens.

Again Britain has not as a whole turned racist over night, but Brexit can surely be the only explanation for the 42% increase in recorded racist crime in England and Wales. The statistics alone speak their own story, there's no denying it. You don't see a spike like that in the matter of two weeks for absolutely no reason! There's no leftist agenda, just cold hard facts from a police force.

Even the United Nations asked the media in Britain to tone down the anti migrant reporting

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/apr/24/katie-hopkins-cockroach-migrants-denounced-united-nations-human-rights-commissioner

Like the Breakfast Club poster Skipper

 

That article is 15 months old and completely irrelevant to Brexit.
Is the upsurge in racist incidents solely down to the referendum? Perhaps, perhaps not. Since when did congenital idiots need an excuse to shout abuse at anyone?
As for the "cold, hard facts from a Police force", which ones are we talking about- the 381 the NPCC claim or the 85 another forces quotes them as saying? They can't both be right.

 

While we're talking about the British supposedly being racist over their attitude to migrants, no-one's levelling the same accusations at the Hungarians-
"HUNGARY’S leader has blasted the European Union over its threat to sue the government for £211,000 for each migrant it refuses to take in.
Mr Orban was told by the EU he would be fined £211,000 per migrant
Prime minister Viktor Orban said an average citizen would have to work nearly 40 years to earn the same amount and accused Brussels of living in “an ivory tower”.
The PM erupted after he said he was told by the EU he would be fined £211,000 per migrant if they refuse to obey the mandatory quotas.
The anger came just weeks ahead of the Hungarian public going to the polls to vote over whether it should accept the EU’s demands on taking refugees."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/688682/Hungary-PM-Viktor-Orban-Brussels-European-Union-migrants-referendum-mandatory-quotas

 

Are you attempting to divert our attention from the theme of this conversation?

If you feel compelled to discuss that matter, feel free to open another theme.

 

Don't worry, It's ok to talk about migrants in other EU countries. After all many of those who were in Hungary wanted to go to Germany or the UK.

 

Seeing as the thread title is actually redundant, isn't everything posted after the result off-topic.

 

Brexit hasn't been delivered yet. The petition to have a second referendum is to be debated in Parliament in September and the fall out is still affecting global markets

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36777494

And then there's the court cases trying to scupper the vote

http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/11/news/economy/brexit-legal-cases-lawsuits/

 

But "debated" means exactly that, they're going to discuss it. Doesn't actually follow that anything will happen one way or the other-
"In a statement, the House of Commons Petitions Committee said a debate on the petition would allow MPs to "put forward a range of views on behalf of their constituents" and a government minister would respond to the points raised.
But it said: "A debate in Westminster Hall does not have the power to change the law, and won't end with the House of Commons deciding whether or not to have a second referendum...
"It will be up to the government to decide whether it wants to start the process of agreeing a new law for a second referendum.""
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36777494

If they do decide to overturn the result of a democratic vote, I predict the turnout in all future British elections will fall to about 5%, since they're effectively proving they don't give a toss what the rest of us who actually work for a living think or want. So why bother voting?

 

Ah, that's very "smart" remark. In other words: let's silence conversation about unpleasant reality since I'm out of adequate answers.

This subject is extremely important for many people both in EU and UK. This conversation should be considered of the highest concern at least until the end two years period of proceedings that will lead to the final exit of the UK from the EU. At least that long. Side effects of the Brexit are quite interesting too.

So let's talk – it doesn't hurt at all.

Ladies and gentlemen, I wish you a pleasant evening.

 

From the distant perspective, it just seems like more of the same. Britain has never been totally on board with the EU. They kept the pound, complained continually about silly rules imposed: "Why can't I have a 'pint' in my local pub?" Remember that argument? My view may be skewed by a shared English speaking media, but for years it has seemed (to me) that the British are not happy under the EU. The Brexit was no surprise to me. From here, it seems like the Germans and French control the EU, more or less. What started as a trade zone has slowly morphed into control over national policies.

No doubt immigration is an issue, perhaps even the issue that moved things into the red. Yet, it's one thing for workers within the trade zone to move around, quite another when people from outside suddenly appear and are then welcomed by a faceless bureaucracy and pushed into member nations. I don't think individual states within the EU imagined such control when the EU was formed. Any Political Science class teaches that a bureaucracy will always grow, and the EU is nothing but a faceless bureaucracy. It's the nature of the beast that it assumes greater powers, bends or 'interprets' rules to give it greater reach, more people, more money.

I think the EU is doomed anyway. There becomes a point when the wealthier nations will all get tired of supporting the poorer nations. GB is the first crack in a system that is beginning to fail.

 

Yeah, that's exactly what you tried in post #692

 

Any failure on my part to respond to your comments is down to the fact that I see no point in answering them all. They truly speak for themselves.

(That and I might be occasionally laughing too much after reading them.)

But you've clearly forgotten, you were the one who was insisting that others stay on-topic, your version of it, while you happily sailed off in some very odd directions...