Germans bypass Stalingrad

I was refering to the use of barges to supply troops in Russia

 

They didn't use them to great extent, Partly because there Industry was more focused towards land based transportation for the East, and that the need was not so much needed based on there locations an those of rivers in Axis held territory.

 

My point was to question just how available such barges were on the various rivers of the Eastern Front.

 

That is what I am asking VN is his belief that barges could be used to supply a force in Astrakhan.

 

For those interested in Soviet Caspian Merchant Fleet: a top secret CIA report published 1999 is in the PDF below.

 

A summary of Soviet Merchant Marine Losses in WW2 may be found in the table below (Source: Soviet Merchant Marine Losses in WW2 - SN Guides)


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Type of ships[/TD]
[TD]Cargo ships[/TD]
[TD]Cargo-passengers[/TD]
[TD]Icebreakers[/TD]
[TD]Tankers[/TD]
[TD]Science[/TD]
[TD]Rescue and Port[/TD]
[TD]Others[/TD]
[TD]TOTAL[/TD]
[TD]B.R.T.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Arctic and Atlantic Oceans[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]119600[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Baltic Sea[/TD]
[TD]54[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[TD]127800[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Black Sea[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]93[/TD]
[TD]170900[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Caspian Sea[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]17400[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Pacific and Indian Oceans[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]84900[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SUBTOTAL[/TD]
[TD]144[/TD]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]251[/TD]
[TD]520600[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Captured by enemies abroad[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]94200[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Captured in Soviet Ports[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]29500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Destroyed by Red Army[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]54000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SUBTOTAL[/TD]
[TD]59[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]78[/TD]
[TD]177700[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]TOTAL[/TD]
[TD]203[/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]329[/TD]
[TD]698300[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

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that is not what he said. If you keep mis quoting Von Noobie,he wil lprob. keep ingoring your posts.

In fairness,the Manych canal was kept as an irrigation conduit., It is the planned route for the Caspian Azov project. Barging crude oil formthe Black sea to central Europe was possible- the systemwas in place.

 

4. I believe that the Axis could build a large enough fleet of barges for use on the Don, Manych, Kuma and Sal rivers. Building a barge is far less time consuming then that of a naval vessel.

 

Overall Von Noobie, I just get the sense you believe that nothing can go wrong with what the Germans want to do and that the Soviets cannt do anything right. Why cannt the Soviets build more boats on the Caspian, why couldnt the allies supply the Soviets through Iran, the Germans will eliminate every bridgehead on the Don and Volga, the Germans will always have reserves at the right spot, the luftwaffe can cover ever mile and stop anything the Soviets want to do.

 

The rivers I mentioned, Are all the ones that make up the route the barges would have to take to reach the Caspian or to supplying the for4ces advancing towards Astrakhan in the initial stages.. Perhaps i didn't make it out clearly enough but might I suggest looking at a map and location of these rivers in future, Might have removed any confusion.

I'll conceade the forces in the Caucasus mountain range could be supplied by the Allies through the Persian corridor, How ever what about men?? For the Russians reequip them with reinforcements they would have to travel around the Caspian by either foot, or an even longer route that wasn't so capable by rail. Simple matter is the forces in the Caucasus were not that strong, With out extra man power all the equipment in the world given to them wouldn't have made a lick of difference.

As for the Russian ship building in the Caucasus, Well I did give reasons for that, The ship yards that the Russians used would have been in range of German bombers, Would not take much to make a yard a waste of time when you have bombs falling down and twisting and blowing about vessels before they are even launched.. Then the Russians would have to go and start from scratch, After clearing out the slip way.. They would be playing catch up all the time unless they diverted large aerial support to the region, weakening other fronts.

I did say it could be done, Just at the expense of another area.