Greatest Allied Atrocity of W.W.II

Your distinction is quite correct, Andy. I just didn't specify if I was talking about the RAF's BC or the USAF. I just combined both their strategies into Allied Air Offensive.

And I agree with the rest of your post.

 

”Were all the Organisation Todt men shot immediately? I read that as they wore ( only higher ranked or everyone? ) the nazi swastika on their arm they were not given any mercy?!

Where on earth did you read this? My understanding is this was a very large organisation which leant its name to a great number of forced work forces, civilian, POW or ‘undesirables’. Where is there any claim there was automatic killing of the French who worked on the Atlantic Wall or the Italians who worked on the Gustav, Gothic Lines etc?

No is the short answer.

No.9

[ 09. January 2004, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: No.9 ]

 

Sorry about that No 9!

Of course it was my intention to refer to the Germans who had the swastika and I somehow forgot that there were quite a many nationalities included...

So any knowledge on the German Organization Todt members who were caught with a nazi swastika on their arm? Were they considered as evil as Waffen-SS?

 

I don’t think I understand the question Kai .

Are you referring to the men who commanded and directed the work forces – say particularly those who handled POWs and people from the Concentration Camps?

No.9

 

Hmmmm...

Maybe understanding Organization Todt´s wherabouts in WW2 would help?? ( I don´t know much unfortunately ) I am assuming here that the officer level was German and as they were ordering the work force in the building areas etc their uniform consisted of the nazi swastika on their arm as well and if they were caught they were thought to belong in the W-SS group ( hardcore nazis ) and got similar treatment (?). So some of the questions I include in this thread:

1. Were Org Todt men executed "on the spot"?
2. Was the swastika used by officers or by all Org Todt members or by German born members only?
3. Can the Org Todt members be seen different to the Camp commandants and guards?

I can see this is evolving into a bigger thing all the while...But maybe it´s time!?

 

Right, with you now. I have never tried to discover the A-Z of the Todt Organisation, but have come across it many times when researching other issues.

My impression is at one extreme, citizens were employed, or obliged to be employed, in construction duties. Depending on who was in charge the conditions, and even payment, would vary. At the other extreme, POWs and/or 'undesirables' were forcibly worked to death.

Though the organisation is usually referred to as ‘Todt’, Todt the man died in 1942 and was replaced by Speer.

Sample of info from the excellent Avalon Project:

“Speer was also directly involved in the utilisation of forced labour as Chief of the Organisation Todt. The Organisation Todt functioned principally in the occupied areas on such projects as the Atlantic Wall and the construction of military highways, and Speer has admitted that he relied on compulsory service to keep it adequately staffed. He also used concentration camp labour in the industries under his control. He originally arranged to tap this source of labour for use in small out of the way factories; and later, fearful of Himmler's jurisdictional ambitions, attempted to use as few concentration camp workers as possible.

Speer was also involved in the use of prisoners of war in armament industries but contends that he only utilised Soviet prisoners of war in industries covered by the Geneva Convention.
Speer's position was such that he was not directly concerned with the cruelty in the administration of the slave labour programme, although he was aware of its existence.”

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/judspeer.htm

Taking your point re if those commanding the workers, be they German commanders or other Nationals sworn to the nazis, were dressed similar to SS, viewed as being on a par with Concentration Camp guards, and subsequently liable to be executed without trail? Myself, I don’t know, so look forward to any info anyone has.

No.9

[ 10. January 2004, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: No.9 ]