Islam and the West

Glad to see you, Gordon!

And Mike, don't worry. The mood can't get too heavy or hairy in here. We're all friends and civilised people, aren't we?

Thanks for the response, Miguel. I actually agree with some of your points.

No, it isn't. But no one's going to invade Arabia to 'liberate' Arabians as Georgie did in Iraq, right? I hope so… because westeners in Medina and Mecca will really annoy one billion people…

But in your statement is one of the things I say in the article: one thing are Islamic way of life according to the Koran and another very different is how people actually live. Koran has adapted over centuries to many different lands and peoples and it has become heterogeneous. Persians adapted Islam to Persia, now Iran. That's why many of them read the Koran in Persian or in Persian characters, instead of Arabic.

The Taliban was a fundamemtalist Afgano-Islamic régime. The Koran says no where that women should be treated the way they are treated, but local tribal Afgan traditions do.

Why aren't Egyptian Muslim women mistreated? Because back in the I Century b.C. one of their greatests monarchs was a Queen, who almost conquered the world… About how many women do we hear about that came from Persia, Asyria or Babilone? Semiramide, though there's no prove of her existance.

That's another proof that fundamentalist Islam is heavily-loaded with political interests and nationalism. Iraqi and Iranni Muslims are very different, not just in faith, but in language, race and nationality.

The Saúds rule Arabia as their tribal ancestors did for centuries, following their own cultural traditions as did the Turks during the Ottoman Empire.

Now, the West can't keep supporting these régimes which refuse to evolve and to join internationalism. It instead supports them because they serve their interest better in that way. Change must come from the base, from the people itself. But they need a little help. And what better help than injecting capital into these economies to open new markets and create new jobs with the money we use now to bomb them and make them hate us even more? Once Islamic people start getting better and better jobs and living better each they will start liberalising economically, culturally and politically —as the Chinese are doing precisely now.

I completely agree. And I think that's very positive.

This is true. However, I think that the West is somewhat involved in these conflicts:

The Holy Crusades, the Rift War, the Sudan War, Yom-Kippur War, the 7 Days War, WWI, Napoleonic invasion, Moroccan and Algerian Wars, Balcanic Wars, Italo-Turkish War, the First and Second Gulf Wars, the Irani-Iraqi War, the Lebanese Civil War, the Soviet-Afgano War, etc…

Not the West's fault alone. Cultural background has a very heavy weight, specially if you're talking about most of the very few nations that have almost 80 centuries of History! But China and her 70 centuries of greatness could.

 

Hairy ?

 

For all of you who seem to be interested in the roots of the problem of the middle east there was an interesting article in the latest issue of Military Illustrated which basically argued that the root of the middle easts problems and thus its fundamentalism is not the west but much rather its conversion to socialism in most of the major countries of the region, the author, whose name i forget, argues that the nature of socialism is at odds with the secular nature of of the muslim religion and that it is this which has breed it problems. now i don't entirely agree because i admit the west has something to do with the problems but it is an interesting arguement non the less.

For those of you who are interested i will dig it out once i have finished unpacking from my recent move.

 

With the exception of ETA. Heard of the Red Brigade, UVA, Red Hand of Ulster. The list can go on. there are many terrorist organisation in the world. Religion often has little to do with.

 

Martin, is that your pic? Had no idea you were a silverback

 

Fear naught, this isn't a "bloody political discussion", rather a latin style tiff between a Mexican of recent extraction and a conservative Portuguese who appears to think the Reconquista has still a long way to go

Besides, I think you could show a little more passion as you share the name of the great general immortalised by Charlton Heston, who left his carcass to the Fuzzy Wuzzies

 

A "Mexican of recent extraction"… God! Then I'm Mexicanising… damned chilli-full food…

 

Fried, should we start a stereotype war?

 

If you want to lose it…

Who's the guy who knows how to cook, choosing flower-gifts, about decoration, wears designer clothing, loves Brodway musicals and Barbara Streisand?

 

ha ha, and who's the short, stocky, black hair, pot-bellied, erstwhile large moustache, married, catholic with jewish ancestry, two girls, who lives in a backwater country no one talks about too big for it's football boots, and most of the time mumbling about it's former greateness left behing 300 years ago with nothing to show for it except a plethora of bad baroque churches ?

Besides, you got competition: I can cook, and I can iron my own shirts. And I'm a proud supporter of Opus Gay, but for different reasons than most, hehehe

 

What about this short, black-haired, blue-eyed, skinny boy —I look like a young Hitler —, hairy enough to be Mediterranean and pale enough to be German, catholic, with a dominant Mediterranean-Jewish-like mother, ancestry of a bit of everything, who lives in a country where the rest of the world still believes people wear sandals and giant hats and drink Tequila and eat chilli all day and which has the worst soccer team of the best three of America!

 

I saw a funny picture in your profile. Is that lanky porcupine going to swallow that ball bearing? Bad for the health!



Young Hitler on the right!!!


[ 25. August 2004, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Za Rodina ]

 

Fear naught, this isn't a "bloody political discussion", rather a latin style tiff between a Mexican of recent extraction and a conservative Portuguese who appears to think the Reconquista has still a long way to go

Besides, I think you could show a little more passion as you share the name of the great general immortalised by Charlton Heston, who left his carcass to the Fuzzy Wuzzies </font>[/QUOTE]Poor General Gordon......trapped in Khartoum and grabbed by the Fuzzy-Wuzzies!

Hi Freddie, btw
Regards,
Gordon