Last I heard this was a WW2 Forum

Andy, I agree. War is the continuation of politics which, in turn, a very often ruled by economic pressures and considerations. That is true today as it was in the middle ages. WW2 is no difference. Of course, it all depends on one's interest. My main interest in WW2 is the military side and the role of the ordinary soldier. How did he experience everything that went on around him and how did it affect him? I am very curious what happened on a particular day and I am researching one of such days.

However, the politics behind the military aspect, and the economics and dynamics behind that, is also of interest. And what happened in that sense 60 years ago still bears relation to this day; the very essence of conflict is still the same. If we study the causes and effects, we can somehow, for ourselves, apply them to the situation today and arrive to our POV. See it as a ' Lessons Learned' exercise. If you don't know your past, you don't know your future. It is a cliche, but true nontheless.

I feel their should be space for discussing the political/economic reasons behind WW2. Because there were: Ford has been mentioned. I have heard several vets tell me how surprised they were to capture German Ford Cars. More recently historians have published books on Ford and IBM and their dealings with Nazi Germany. A few years back quite a few books saw the light of day about the financial support the nazi's got (from the Swiss banking system, for example). Everybody who follows the news could read this for themselves. KT mentioned some of the economic decisions that were taken by the League of Nations before WW2 and that, without doubt, played their part in what happened next.

Just because I don't know (about) something doesn't mean it didn't happen. So, I am interested in this discussion. It is up to any individual him-/herself as to the extent they want to draw their concusions. Unfortunately the lack of time prevents me to read more on the subject than I do here. But so be it.

An afterthought; Andy, yes, I do wonder about my choice of avatar. I might have an innocent reason for picking this particular one, but indeed don't I forgo (?) on a few other considerations in doing so? For some I might...

[ 02. November 2002, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: Stevin Oudshoorn ]

 

Very well put, Stevin.

I'll admit to being a 'tanks,guns,aircraft' person with, again, a keen interest in individual experience of war.

I keep well clear of the 'political' discussions ( I don't know enough to contribute ) but I appreciate and enjoy reading the political discussions here - provided individual verbal combat doesn't occur.

I agree with Knight that WWII is being used to mislead by politicians and the media. Whether malicious or simply badly-informed I don't know....

But there should be an area of the Forum for politics, of which 'war is a continuation....'.

 

I enjoy reading opposite points of view from mine. Whether I agree or disagree is my choice.
Censorship always stops free thought and discussion. We can follow the forum guidelines and agree to disagree. Without a different point of view from time to time we often miss the big picture. WWII as well as the world today had/has many politically motivated behind the scene forces at work especially with economics. I enjoy reading these theories. We shouldn't take opposite points of view too seriously, this one point I should especially remind myself of. Sometimes different opinions hit too close to home and one may become offended. Remember, this is a forum, a place for free discussion. I like the FFZ and it should be left alone as it's own "Speakers Corner" like in London's Hyde Park (I believe that is the correct park).

Just adding my two cents worth.

 

You see? Everybody around here have just contributed in a very wise way to keep things nice and calmly in this forum. I agree with everybody's views, even Andy's! I am OK with it. We all complain about the horrible part of goverments such as Stalin's, Hitler's, etc. for its "lack" of liberty. Now that noone of them is still around let's use that supossed freedom of speech in discussing WWII and non-WWII matters. And discuss means to agree sometimes and disagree others.

 

Interesting, so politics is going to be the acceptable norm on FFZ ? I did think that I saw Otto post that politics was no no a week or two ago when Knight and I were getting into mid-east discussions ? Maybe this is a scary discussion for few to become involved.... ?
I still see that no one has decided to add their input on how to support Otto on making this forum site overall better.....I wonder if all 400 plus members are doing this in private.
As for political discussion maybe break FFZ into several multi-categories.
1.) past with year(s)posted
2.) present from the year 1970 onward ?
3.) maybe break the politcal discussions down to what country involved ?

 

As far as I am concerned it is Otto's call. I for myself welcome discussions on the political/economic field relating to WW2. Even if my knowledge on the subject is limited and my contributions will be small. I feel there is a distinction between discussing and contributing on one hand and spewing my own political thoughts on the other.

I agree that some 'restructering' of the forums will be needed to give politics/economics its own little niche, battlefield, if you will, here.

I feel two sections: One dealing with Ec. and Pol. of WW2 and one for post-WW2. And leave the rest of the forums deal with the military aspect, just as it is now. The forums are working pretty well for me as they are. I do feel an ec./pol. section will be a plus, though.

And for the rest; I feel some forums could be merged, but I understand Otto is already working on that one.

 

Erich, i don't seem to recal Otto saying politics was a no-no. And frankly, i don't see how you can study WW2 without at least knowing a little about the politics behind it.

I feel that to any people who sudy WW2 only look at the impressive weapons, nice uniforms and shining medals. They ignore or seperate the evil politics that went with it.

This is the same as people who watch war movies and think thats hows wars really are and think they are cool. Unfortunatly, in real wars, the dead don't get up so they ca go off and make another movie.

And the people we talk about and the machines we love and the medals we collect are all the result of conflict in which men died, for real, over political ideals.

You cannot seperate war from politics.

[ 02. November 2002, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Bish OBE ]

 

hmmmmmmm, then I have mis-read his posting.

As Stevin put it, maybe a pre WW 2, WW2 and post WW2 discussion boards. I agree that politics is an absolute must as you need to know some background as to why. How far do we go......all could be included as mentioned in a multi-segmented forum. As for our membership, Otto has a listing of all 400 +, I would like to see a profile or maybe a section devoted to all members, not just the amount of posts but their interests in WW 2. It is sad but it is a reality that only some 20-25 members post for the past year.

E

 

KNight, I dont mind you posting here--things that are political but, as I suggested earlier--if you want to post something political--then why not the politics of the times that which the events that happened are what these foprums are built around? I Believe that that would be a useful tool in Teaching people here--more of what shaped things into happening and the events that led up to--through and slightly after ww2. Isnt that an almost endless subject you could post on?

However, I cant see how conspiracy thoery this or conspiracy theory that--on something modern--is useful to ww2?

Knight, if you posted on politics of the day--I would like to be able to learn more, than just the fighting parts to ww2.

Like I say--im not trying to make you quit posting. The trouble is ( and I rteally dislike saying this in public) a few things that you are posting is ticking people off and they are notifying me of it. Nobody wants you to quit the forums, merely to Participate in our discussions.

If you choose to do so or not do so--I cant force you into doing anything even if I had the power to do so. I for one see you as anj intelligent person, and would like to have a meaningful conversation with you.

Just remember something about me will you? Self-admittedly so, I am the most Politically in-correct person living on these forums.

PS, I mailed out your poster three weeks ago, it should have been there at least 2 wks ago. However, I have another poster--same pic as the other, but is a smaller poster of the Richthoffen brothers--if you want that, ill gladly send that to you. In the meantime--if the other ever arrives--just keep both.

Let me know if you want this one?

PS, I still owe Steve his EATG book, but havent been able to send it yet. When I get both of you satisfied--i'll gladly restart the contests.

 

maybe we could have a section devoted to the Politics of the WW2 era, say 1930 to 1950.

I' not all out for having loads of boards for non-WW2 discussions, i think just the one is sufficent.

I have also noticed alot of new members who don't post at all, very odd that.

Would it not be an idea that is someone registers but does not post at all, then after a ertaoin amount of time their registration is deleted

 

I agree that if someone say does not make a first post within 30 days, they get deleted. Its ridiculous to sign up and forget about it.

Also, I like the FFZ just the way it is. I always look forward to seeing what crazy posts occur here. I enjoy looking at the diversity of the topics here, after posting up a storm in the ww2 ones of course!

 

Obviously, more reading work needed. Discussion goes on constantly about the politics of WW2...

And the random politcal cartoon applies how?

Where did I do this?
Or, more appropriately, why do I bother asking? Obviously, you can't read and prefer to put words into my mouth.

Gee... then how about you start a thread about it? This sounds like a really interesting topic- and yet you seem to only bring it up when you're ranting and raving.

Do you really want me to go back over some of the sources you use? We can just refer back to, say, that "thoroughly well researched" timeline on 9/11...

Again, part of an interesting topic (one which I have never dismissed, or even commented on. But, again, why would I expect Knight to figure that one out.).

Geez this gets tiresome... OK, Knight, very simple here- what arguments are you talking about? I did not rebut any of your arguments- I haven't done so for a couple weeks now.

Hilarious! This would be a real interesting one, considering how much I also disagree with the current political leadership in America. As many others who have read my posts know. My comments on Bush and Bin Laden? Bush and the economy?

Knight, get your info straight. Or learn how to read.

Exactly. not discussions on the Tonkin Gulf, not on the USS LIberty, not on the freemasons running the treasury... on WW2.

**

Again, the reason I actually commented here...

**
In my opinion, if one is only going to post non-WW2 topis in the FFZ, then maybe a WORLD WAR 2 forum is not the right place.

On the political note... It would be ridiculous to discuss W2 without discussing politics, if not impossible.

Perfectly put...

 

There is a difference between discussing politics relating to WWII and politics of today (which IMHO is the problem).

 

PzJgr, I should have left out all my comments- you summed it up.
I just think, regardless even of arguments or what causes them, that we should at least try and keep to the idea Otto intended here. An intelligent discussion forum on World War II. Any aspect of it...

The Free Fire Zone is definetely a good thing- everyone gets to know each other and have some fun. I just don't think it should be the main area of the forums.

 

Definitely. The FFZ is a great diversion, but...

 

Good point, Crazy, that last one.

It would be a shame if everyone were 'deadly serious' here all the time - music, movies, beer etc may appear trivial but fulfil an important role of the Forums - ie friendship.

It's not much fun watching people squaring up for a 'slanging match' - I can see that any time I want on London's roads, after all.....

 

Awww, only the last one? Shucks, I aim to please!!!

he he...

Hmmm... I wonder if the slanging on London's fine roads matches that of the fine metropolis of Boston?
Let me tell you, these drivers in this city are great fun. Oh yeah... so much fun I may need therapy!!!

On a serious note relating to the Free-Fire forum... along the fun lines... maybe something discouraging or at least seperating serious topics??? I know this may sound wierd, but...
Maybe make the free fire zone into two ares- "fun" and "serious". The serious area could be for, well, serious topics. Forum suggestions, the bombing in Bali, concerns about local or world issues, and so on... In the "fun" area, things like music, movies...

Or thrilling snapshots of Crazy's military duties!

Just an idea (would be my 2 cents worth, but waiting for icon! )

 

Weeeeeell, [sniff]: I jist wanna say to that: I'm not here to make me friends nor foes.

I'm here to discuss topics of WW II, more specific the one I'm interested in. I also try to sort out the worst misinformation and myths flying around here, at least to my best knowledge...

Getting reality into play might piss off some folks here, but I guess that's the price. After all this is a WAR board, and people posting here should show some solidity.

Cheers,

 

What do you mean by solidity?

If it is mostly keeping to the ww2 boards, then I agree. And most people do just that. But the FFZ gives us a chance to discuss more than just the war. I have a high opinion of virtually everyone that has posted here; most people here discuss things intelligently. I enjoy discussing other topics with such people. One of the best ways to understand today is to understand yesterday. And when it comes to current events in the ffz, it helps to have a background in ww2.

 

Then I suggest you read and inwardly digest the FFZ Forum heading ( 'any non-WWII topic...'), wipe your nose, and return to the higher levels of the forum.