Libya no-fly zone

1)I am very surprised that there is any fortitude and determination in Belgium,and even in Europe.
2)As there are now a lot of proofs for the responsability of K for Lockerbie, I am saddened and dismayed to think that BO was meeting K in july 2009 (or,maybe it was his double?)

 

1)Democrats in Libya ?
see the following source :
WWW.telegraph.co.UK /news/worl...eda-links.html
Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-quaeda links .
2)Why do you think that the US has other objectives in the ME ?Maybe the protection of the desert environment ?
3)About the usefulness of K :the choice is :K or the islamists,and K is preventing the massive emigration from Africa to Europe.
4)Al quaeda in control of Libya is IMHO,a destabilization of the ME .
5)What we h

 

5)(I was interrupted)what we have now,is a massive al-quaeda operation to control the ME,and the reaction of the West is :we have to help them,they all are good liberal democrats fighting against tyranny.I have a bad memory,but not that bad,to have forgotten that the Carter boys were jubilating when the shah was overthrowed:Iran would become a liberal democracy .Yes,we have seen what has become of Iran .
6)As always,the devils we know (in Libya,Syria) are better than the devils we don't know .
7)You think the situation in Libya can't become worse ? It will become much,much worse for the West,if K will leave .
Lockerbie ? There will be dozens of Lockerbie .

 

One theory that is gaining credit round here is that, as far as Libya is concerned, there is a French plan to capitalize on the rebellion to setup a more pro Fench government to replace K. Sort of the reverse of the 2nd Irak war theory with US and France exchanging roles.
IMO it's not the whole story, it looks like there are lots of disparate motivations there, but it does fit well with some of the known facts.
Let's hope the deuxieme bureau did their homework better than the CIA did, last thing the west needs is having to put troops on the ground in another arab country, even leaving aside oil (hard as that is) they are a lot closer than Irak, so we cannot afford it turning into another Afghanistan as it woud make the Central Med a war zone.

BTW I love the 'Kinetic Military action' definition, what will they come up with next? The State Department really seems to be terrorized by the 3 letter word.

 

Who are you to tell the US president what his aim must be much less how to do it?

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Who are you to deny me the right to criticize the US foreign policy ?
I belonged to the minority that approved the US intervention in Vietnam,the war in Iraq ,I also have the right to criticize the help by BO to al-quaeda in the civil war in Libya .

 

Don't know about the 2eme bureau, but I saw something hilarious on Tv yesterday. Kadhafi's propaganda staff has set up a French language news programme for westerners to understand his tales. Ididn't even know Libyans spoke French in the first place...

Regarding the field moves, the Rebs are moving fast westwards today.

 

It may be that France is playing the long game in Libya. They are, so far as I know, the only coallition member to reckognise officially the rebels, and they seem to be playing the most aggressive role in the alliance militarily at this point. Perhaps they hope to see a pro-French government installed to promote a secure oil source so as to counterbalance the Russian energy supply from the east. I seem to recall there were concerns by European states that Russia could aquire a political veto over europe by controlling access to oil and gas. Any thoughts?

 

Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, and Chad were all French interests in the late 1800's. While Algeria was the only true colony during the period, French culture shaped and benefited surrounding countries as well. The Foreign Legion was headquartered in Algeria until the 1960's when DeGual decided they needed more supervision. France, traditionally, has been a stabilizing factor in the region. France supported Chad in the Libyan-Chad conflict in the late 60's through the 70's, the period in which Khadfi came to power over King Idris.



Libya was an Italian Colony prior to and post WW2, gaining independence in 1951, Italy has shown little interest in the region. I would imagine that France would be very interested in setting up shop in the country and consolidating it's foot hold in North Africa.

That's just my opinion though and I have no passion one way or the other. You can almost view France's participation in the conflict as being a long time coming as France is the only 'western power' with a stable military force in the area.

 

The media was created a week ago .

A little known fact : France occupied regions of Lybia during and after WWII and until 1951 ( Fezzan, tripolitaine ) and issued some occupation stamps .

 

Nice find Skipper

 

The news I get are confused, K is apparently still on the attack near Misurata while loosing ground elsewhere.
Also it looks like also Siria is in uproar now, mixed feeling about that one too as I'm not sure replacing the baath party with islamist is a step forward.
But who are really those "rebels" ?

 

those 'rebels' are linked to al-quaed

 

Source PLS. I don't think anyone is surprised to hear that there are Al Quada linked individuals in the rebel forces. Kadaffi and the AQ don't get along either. That is different from a "massive operation" however. The linkage is also rather one of convenience rather than strictly hierarchical. The likely hood of AQ being a major player in Libya is pretty small IMO.

Which of course is a straw man.

Or not.

Again with the claims of prescience. Indeed it might become worse but IMO and apparently in the opinion of most on this board an in places of power where it's a concern is that it's not likely.

No one has denied your the right to criticize. However the way you state things as imperatives, exclusives, and superlatives and your statement of your beliefs as if they were fundamental truths is obviously incorrect. Thus you should expect to get called on it and find your statements the object of some considerable criticism themselves both as to content and format. Your approval or disapproval of US or other acts and policies previous to that in no way grants you any special status.

As for the current campaign being characterized as "help to" AQ that seems to be another very marginal call. Note also that many characterized the invasion of Iraq in that way and it turned out to be the worse disaster that ever befell AQ.

 

If you would take pains to read my posts,then you would see that I have posted a source (post 242).

 

the trouble with a lot of people in the west is that they have replaced knowledge by bias :all facts that does not match their irrational world-picture,are chased away :exemple :when (in the ME or elsewhere) there is a revolt against a ruler who is considered by these people as someone not much democratic,well,the rebels are automatically considered as the good boys,who will impose in their country a liberal western democracy.
When the Shah was chased away in Iran,he was replaced by a western intellectual(forgot his name),of course,the darling of the liberals,and,after a few months,appeared the ayatollahs to the perplexity of the opinionmakers in the west ,who were "thinking" that the Iranian people were driven by the same motives as the intellectual microcosmos in the west .
And,of course,the opinionmakers are as the French Bourbons :they will never learn anything .They have not the faintest notion of the revolution of Islam fundamentalism that is conquering the ME .
These people (the western opinionmakers) have no conviction,they have only one aim:getting rich and they never will understand why people will do suicide attacks.
And,history will repeat itself .

 

only for those who are willing to face reality:
-the man running the defences of Dernah,was arrested in 2002 by US forces in ....Afghanistan (curious or not ?)
-following the official report from the US Military academy,the Combatting Terrorism Center and the Department of Social Sciences:
"Al-Qa'ida's Foreign Fighters in Iraq:A First Look at the Sinjar Records"
from 700 foreign fighters in Iraq,41 % came from Saoudi-Arabia (this is not forecasting much goods for the future of SA)and 18.8 % from Lybia,of which 60% of Dernah(curious or not ?)
Of course,one still can persist in to calling the rebels freedom fighters .

 

Yes, indeedy! So to "protect" the Libyan population we are now fighting along the side of the jihadists! Hope that works out for us...


Pajamas Media » Rebel Commander in Libya Fought Against U.S. in Afghanistan

 

Ras Lanouf was taken yesterday and the Rebels now control the majority of the oil fields.

 

Rebels retreat from Libya oil port under attack

Something I don't get about the air strikes, what if the Pro Gaddafi forces are attacked by the rebels? Would Rebel forces be attacked?