Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Bundesluftwaffe, Feb 6, 2015.
I hear the arguments of pernicious individuals as Wilson, Kennedy, Carter, Obama,....
Adolf Putin :haha. Russia is no danger for Europe, it is to weak .
Unfortunately, Russia is strong enough to bully their non-NATO neighbors.
Nobody is afraid of little Adolf from Moscow! The only danger he presents is that someone chokes himself to death while laughing! You have to really savor the fact that the most homophobic leader in the world makes homoerotic "Village People"'esque propaganda videos! The Marx brothers and Monty Python combined don't have half the talent the little closet fag has!
There is a simple solution to this, If a community not native to the region can some how break that region away to join Russia then why don't we just have the entire EU cross over into Russia? By Russia's standard they could legally break off any region and join the EU
But wasn't it Chechnya that wanted independency some 20 years ago and what happened to them? Oh yes, Russia didn't accept that of course and by using extensive violence ended their independency dreams.
Of course, by Russian logic as old good LJAd has showed over and over again, it is perfectly fine that the same happens in Ukraine. How twisted is that?
What happened in Chechnya does not invalide the arguments of the Russian minority in Ukraine,it only indicates that the Russians are making in the Caucasus the same mistake as the Ukrainian nationalists .
So are you saying that Russia should have granted them independence? What if Karelia decides that they want to be independent nation too, should Russia just allow that to happen?
I bet the Russian minorities in Ukraine are just fine. Don't you think that it is just laughable propaganda and excuse that Putin comes to rescue the distressed and oppressed people riding on a back of a bear - without shirt of course?
... and what if region of North Karelia decides to unite with Republic of Karelia?
I am saying that you can't condemn the actions of the Russian minority in the Ukraine by referring to the Russian actions in the Caucasus or justifying the anti Russian revolts in the Caucasus by referring to the pro Russian revolts in the Ukraine,because it boils down to :if the Russians are crushing a revolt in the Caucasus,the Ukrainians can crush a revolt in Crimea .
Your bet about the Russian minorities in Ykraine is wrong : if they were just fine,they would not rebel .Besides,the Ukrainians have a tradition of persecutong their minorities .
The serious question is just what fraction of theat minority is really rebeling. From all that I've read it is very small. Many of them may not have been thrilled with some of the legistlation that was put on the table but then I'm not thrilled by a lot of legislation that is put on the table here in the US either. That doesn't mean I'm starting an armed insurrection though does it? The fact that you keep failing to address was that the annexation of Crimea and the so far attempted annexation of the Eastern Ukraine wasn't a spontaneous revolt by the locals it was orchastrated, funded, and to a large extent manned by Russia and Russians not locals.
Failing to see your point here.
Don't most white peoples have a tradition of persecuting minorities? How does that justify Russian actions in the Ukraine, when they've treated the Ukraine as their own little colony to be bullied?
Ed Hunter said : I bet the Russian minorities are just fine .
My answer is that given the tradition of the Ukrainian nationalists of persecuting their minorities,this is very unlikely .
Besides, if they were just fine, why is the Ukrainian president now offering them autonomy ? If they had received in the past what they now are offered, it is probable that there would be no revolt .
But as usual : to litle and to late .
Not much of an answer though is it? What we have above is the opinion of someone who has demonstrated considerable bias on the issue to date.
Becasue it was part of the peace deal that they signed up to and are apparently trying to honor in spite of the fact that the Russians and their surogates aren't.
Is it? I doubt it. Without the Russian instigation there would have been no "revolt" but there is little to suggest that the Russians wouldn't have instigated this even if they had previously given some form of autonomy.
Seems that the Russians are acting quite openly in Ukraine. On the other hand why bother to trying to keep secrecy as whole world already know what is happening.
Still does nothing to justify Russian behaviour.
I've no idea if Obama has ever said anything like that, but if he has then I take it as a compliment!
I hereby officially admit, that we are in 2015! There - happy now?
However it seems, that Josif Putin prefers the Stalin's style of governing more and more. It's like Stalin never died (in 1953)...
I'm not quite sure how those quotes by Stalin (the last one included) somehow make me as living in 1939. Since this is a forum dedicated to WW2 1939 (1937)-1945 those quotes seem to me to be pretty relevant. After all they are very telling in lightening the thinking (and lies) of the other culprit for the European war.
You are lost again...
The Chechnyans (abt 90 % of the population) wanted to get rid of the alien Russian occupation and gain their independence in their own country.
The alien Russians in Eastern Ukraine did not generally revolt. That so called "revolt" was an operation by the Russian Federation where some local thugs were used as a disguise. A common Russian/soviet practice used so many times before.
You must be joking! It's the Russians who have the STRONG tradition of persecuting their minorities - not the Ukrainians! Maybe you were confused...?
Haven't been aware, that North Karelia (in Finland proper) wants to unite with the East ("Republic" of) Karelia.
If they wanted to, then of course they could. Can't see that ever happening though...
You could ask the Poles : the Ukrainians killed more than 60000 Poles during WWII,beginning on 17 september 1939 when every Pole in the eastern part of Poland was an outlaw and could be killed : a mega Kristallnacht which the liberal Western historiography has covered up ..
And, maybe we could talk about the role of the Ukrainians in the Holocaust .
While we are at it let's talk about Stalin & the Russians role in the man-made famine that killed untold millions of Ukrainians...If not genocide, it is most definitely mass murder on a grand scale.
Apparently the Ukrainians learned quite a bit under Stalin's harsh tutelage.