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Merkel Apparently Fears Devastating Defeat of the Ukrainian Army

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Bundesluftwaffe, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    I've formed the same opinion on a lot of MMGW supporters over the years too, purely because you see the very same names posting the same opinions over and over and over again on every single form of media they can get away with it on.
    Either that, or there really are some terminally obsessive types out there.
     
  2. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Interesting that very probably the Russian Army is caught on document: The Separatists had Tornado-S rocket lauches which are pretty 100% Russian army used weapons.

    http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=695

    "The text of the ceasefire agreement specifies, among other things, that forces on both sides need to move their heavy weapons back from the front, with explicit instructions about the required distance different weapons must be drawn back. Among the weapons systems named is the MLRS Tornado-S, a multiple launch rocket system that, as it turns out, could only have come from one place."

    “The 9A52-4 Tornado-S is an advanced Russian system, only deployed in 2012,” writes Mark Galeotti, Clinical Professor in Global Affairs at the New York University Center for Global Affairs. “It’s certainly not in private stocks, and Ukraine doesn’t have any. So the only way it could be involved in this war is because Russia has supplied them to the rebels—the ones they aren’t arming, remember?—or else in the hands of Russian troops.”

    http://yle.fi/uutiset/fiia_researchers_minsk_ceasefire_agreement_contains_proof_of_russian_involvement_in_ukraine/7803774

    In a commentary on the Minsk ceasefire published by the Finnish Institute of International Affairs, FIIA researchers András Rácz and Sinikukka Saari say that details in the ceasefire agreement prove that Russia has been directly involved in the conflict in Eastern Ukraine.
    The agreement determines that heavy weapons must be withdrawn from the conflict zone. The text also specifies in detail the weaponry referred to in this clause.
    Among the heavy weapons to be withdrawn is the Tornado-S rocket launcher system.
    According to Rácz and Saari, Russia is the only country that uses this high-tech, long-range multiple-launch rocket system (MLRS). If there are Tornado-S rocket launchers in the conflict zone, they could not have originated from anywhere but Russia, the researchers conclude.

    ----------

    Explain that Vladimir!
     
  3. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Another relevant article from the strategy page:
    http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/russia/articles/20150217.aspx
     
  4. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Still fighting in eastern Ukraine. Although it seems Debaltseve is the only place so far but the fighting is not over.

    Just read that Russia had said that sending UN troops would be wrecking the Minsk peace deal. I think the separatists have already done that. The explanation is that they can " shoot in their own area ". Wonder where their area is next.

    The Demand for UN troops is in my opinion good, and Russia´s attitude is totally due to the fact they dont´want the situation to settle. I cannot see other explanation.
     
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  5. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    Oh they want it settled, But if UN troops move in then the non existent Russian troops will have to move out.

    UN moves in and Russia loses an advantage.

    UN stays out and Russia has the upper hand.
     
  6. rkline56

    rkline56 USS Oklahoma City CG5

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    Rumblings surround the Baltic States as the next proving ground.

    NATO has drawn a line in the sand on BBC news at 6AM Eastern time.

    I have been hearing reports of NATO jets intercepting Russian patrols only to be intercepted by SU-23's themselves. Lukewarm War about to go hot (hotter). Cooler heads to prevail?
     
  7. rkline56

    rkline56 USS Oklahoma City CG5

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    “The 9A52-4 Tornado-S is an advanced Russian system, only deployed in 2012,” writes Mark Galeotti, Clinical Professor in Global Affairs at the New York University Center for Global Affairs. “It’s certainly not in private stocks, and Ukraine doesn’t have any. So the only way it could be involved in this war is because Russia has supplied them to the rebels—the ones they aren’t arming, remember?—or else in the hands of Russian troops.”
     
  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    It is incredible the law in Russia. They can protect their "citizens" outside of Russia with violence and army. What if the Russians outside Russia kill people and use violence. Should they not be arrested and taken to Siberia for taking advantage of this law by the Russian Army? This is the law of the criminals. They can do what they please and the Russian law does not protect innocent people. Protecting people with guns and heavy artillery and rockets? Not accepting any peace offers just shows that there are only criminals leading the separatists, who want to keep on killing and shooting.
     
  9. edhunter76

    edhunter76 Member

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    Yes indeed, this kind of law is made to excuse all kind of aggressions to be explained to their own people. The Russians believe that their neighbor countries are oppressing their people while the real oppressor is Russia herself.

    Juts wondering, where might the next poor oppressed Russians need help? Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland...
     
  10. edhunter76

    edhunter76 Member

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    So, Debaltseve has fallen into the hands of so called rebels. They shelled the town during ceasefire hard and finally got what they wanted. So are they now happy? Of course not, they seem to shift their focus to Mariupol next which is last bigger city still hold by Ukraine in the conflict area. Oh, but did someone mention something about ceasefire being in effect? The meaning of ceasefire is well known in western countries, but apparently for Putin it means nothing.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/02/19/uk-ukraine-crisis-peacekeepers-idUKKBN0LN0B120150219

    British defence secretary Fallon has said that the Baltic nations Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are in real danger and that Nato is getting ready to answer to that threat. Putin has to understand that enough is enough.
     
  11. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Vladimir Putin says there was nothing wrong with Soviet Union's pact with Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/11213255/Vladimir-Putin-says-there-was-nothing-wrong-with-Soviet-Unions-pact-with-Adolf-Hitlers-Nazi-Germany.html

    How come Putin is worried that the neighbouring countries would join Nato. According to his view we the surrounding countries around Russia can make a secret pact with Nato, attack Russia, and divide it between ourselves and Putin would say there´s nothing wrong with that. You are not very clever there, Vladimir. Mr invincible. How about jumping off the roof of Kreml and show us you cannot die??
     
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  12. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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  13. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Do like the Russians do. Shoot them down and comment that you don´t know anything about what happened. Probably the bombers ran out of fuel....Sorry can´t help myself here if Putin says he´s invincible.


    2014 Malaysia Airlines Flight 17
    On July 17, 2014, Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, a Boeing 777-200ER, flying to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam, crashed near Donetsk in the eastern part of Ukraine. All 283 passengers and 15 crew are reported dead when the plane crashed from roughly 33,000 ft (10,000 m). The crash of Flight 17 coincided with claims by Russian separatists from Donetsk region in Eastern Ukraine of having shot down a military An-26
     
  14. rkline56

    rkline56 USS Oklahoma City CG5

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    If so, may they meet Napoleon's fate in Vilnius. "The Horror", "Will they say he was a kind man?" Rhetorical question from F.F. Coppola.
     
  15. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    We remember WW2 and the secret pact; Vladimir. This time we know there can be no negotiations or any such you suggest are just your propaganda joke to "prove" you´re so righteous. So far that´s what they have been, and so far you have only trusted in the power of the arms even if you put your name on paper.
     
  16. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31561769

    A rally is under way in Moscow to condemn the "coup" in neighbouring Ukraine, a year after the downfall of its pro-Russian president.
    Russian state media heavily promoted the rally and march with the slogan "We won't forget! We won't forgive!".
    Ukraine's protests ousted pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych in 2014.
    Russia has since annexed Ukraine's Crimea peninsula and is accused of backing rebels in eastern Ukraine.
    The Ukrainian government, Western leaders and Nato say there is clear evidence that Russia is helping the rebels in eastern Ukraine with heavy weapons and soldiers. Independent experts echo that accusation. Moscow denies it, insisting that any Russians serving with the rebels are "volunteers".
     
  17. rkline56

    rkline56 USS Oklahoma City CG5

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    Moscow probably has entire divisions taking Sabbaticals to "Volunteer" for duty in Crimea and Donetsk.
    But the orders for them to report were never generated, have never existed, nor do they have the foggiest.



    Like my Bud Mike who was attached to the CIA wing of SOG Ghost Interdiction Unit in the "Parrots Beak". He carried no I.D., wore Soviet style fatigues or civvies and carried Russian weapons. So there was a good deal of "Deniability". Cambodia and Laos, "We are not in Cambodia or Laos. Always trying to fight war with some stupid rule like shackles, nonsense. I know this is off point - just an illustration of the clandestine ops that pervade behind the wall of silence.


    http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB284/
     
  18. edhunter76

    edhunter76 Member

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  19. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    Russian volunteers huh.. Like the Chinese volunteers in the Korean War...
     
  20. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    I wouldn't read too much into that. Paper's love using all these massive numbers to put fear into people as that sells very well but one must also look at the age, quality and current operational capability of said assets.

    Russia has more often then not gone for quantity over quality, Something to be said for quantity but quality under a decent commander can also win just as easily.

    Ground force wise they not too bad, But in a conflict against the UK it will count in the air and on the sea. According to one man Dr Dmitry Gorenburg of the 270 ships the Russian navy has only 125 are in a working state and only 45 of them or surface combatants or submarines.. In Naval terms rather then a 3.2-1 ration it is actually 1.55-1 ratio.
     

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