Missing French jet hit thunderstorms

Apparently there was a female Riverdancer and an ex-royal...from the family that ruled Brazil in the 1800's. He was apparently the current 4th-in-line to the Throne.

The wreckage they found has been confirmed as that of the plane. No survivors. RIP.

 

I found this in todays news extremely disheartening.

They also mentioned the French submersibles have been delayed a week due to bad weather over the Atlantic. This is also bad news as I have read that the black box can only survive in water for 30 days. After that, we may never know what happened. The Brazilians have also claimed to have found a new area of wreckage, but it is unconfirmed by French planes in the area.

 

the Brazilian army has picked some wreckage (part of the undercariage ) . Also a Spanish pilot, co-pilot + a passenger who were in an aircraft above the atlantic saw a large white light and a diving fire ball for 6 seconds when the Airbus went missing.

 

Brazil recovers 3 more bodies near jet crash site - Yahoo! News

Three more bodies were found Sunday in the ocean near the spot where an Air France jet is believed to have crashed a week ago, bringing the total number of bodies plucked from the water to five, Brazil's military said.

Authorities said pilots searching the mid-Atlantic also spotted an undetermined number of additional bodies from the air and are sending ships to recover them, Navy Capt. Giucemar Tabosa Cardoso said.

The investigation is increasingly focused on whether external instruments may have iced over, confusing speed sensors and leading computers to set the plane's speed too fast or slow — a potentially deadly mistake.

Hundreds of personal items belonging to the passengers have been recovered, but Munhoz said authorities would not immediately identify them because relatives of the victims panicked after authorities on Saturday announced the discovery of a laptop computer and a briefcase with a plane ticket inside it.

 

I cannot bring to mind another instance of a jet at 35,000 feet being bought down by bad weather.

Plenty on take off and approach but not at cruise.


John.

 

i could never imagine how i would take it if its my family on board. it would kill me...

 

I would be surprised if there have been any, this might be the "shape of things to come though. With the composite construction, fly-by-wire computers, and perhaps sensors which should have been replaced this may have been an imperfect scenerio. Couple the reported failure to replace the sensors, which may have influenced the computer controls of the Airbus, with it’s composite material construction, and the "new and improved" designs of modern airliners may have a hidden chink in their armor.

Lightning strikes to basically all metal aircraft follow the skin of the aircraft, leaving the interior and electronics basically "clear" of the discharge. The sensors which are inputing data to the fly by wire system may be faulty (as suspected in this case), or they may be damaged by a lightning strike, or they may be unable to "de-ice" themselves due to internal electrical overload/failure. And perhaps it was the perfect situation in which high-tech, cost savings, and light weight all came together to create a situation from which even experienced pilots would be nothing more than passengers themselves.

Here is a link to and a portion of a rather disturbing article:

Does Air France 447 Reveal the Safety Risks of Plastic Aircraft?
June 3, 2009 · 1 Comment

It is conceivable that the materials used to construct parts of the Airbus 330 might have been a factor in the loss of Air France 447. While we may never know for sure whether structural issues contributed to the plane’s plunge into the Atlantic, the crash raises urgent questions that reach beyond even the untimely deaths of 228 people: Composite aircraft parts figure more and more in the future of commerical aviation, with the two biggest manufacturers preparing to roll out high-composite-content jets next year.

For the rest of the article on this, see:

public safety « Unsilent Generation

My sympathies go out to the families of all the victims of this tragedy.

 

I disagree (i think). The area the plane was flying in is known for extremely violent storms - I don't think it matters how 'hi-tech' a plane is, it has no business flying through storms like that. There is a reason they tend to fly over or around them instead of through them. And what if it get hit by a 100MPH downdraft caused by the storm? Nothing a pilot or automated system can do about that - you're going down.

Whether or not the sensors failed, I don't think really matters. I don't entirely see how - in the case of such a storm - speed would factor into things. I think that a strike some how penetrated the aircraft and caused an assortment of problems that then caused the plan to crash.

And how does one determine whether a plane broke up in the air or on impact with the ocean?

 

Agreed , at this point the cause is still unknown, a technical failure is one of the many hypothesis.
The contradictory news is bit annoying but this time the Brazilians have spotted the debris and picked up bodies too. The French navy has also recovered a body and among the pieces was a suitcase with a named plane ticket, a laptop....

 

I am no expert by far, but I would think that they can determine that by the way the wreakage fits back together. If it broke apart in the air, I would think the wreakage would be stretched, breaking apart away from the front of the plane. Reverse that for if it broke apart on impact.

It is still a most horrible event. I have heard that they found 17 bodies so far as well as the tail section. Still a long way to go on the recovery.

 

BBC NEWS | Americas | Air France tail section recovered

A Brazilian search team has recovered a large tail section of the Air France jet that crashed a week ago over the Atlantic.

The Brazilian military released photos of divers securing the tail fin, which was painted with Air France colours.

Meanwhile the US is sending two sophisticated listening devices to help search for black boxes from the plane.

 

Air France: Flight 447 pilot's body retrieved - Yahoo! News

Search crews in the mid-Atlantic have retrieved the bodies of the chief pilot of Flight 447and a flight attendant, Air France said Thursday.

The plane's two black boxes could be key to determining what happened.

But the boxes will only continue to emit signals for a few more days. They send out an electronic tapping sound that can be heard up to 1.25 miles (2 kilometers) away.

 

Pretty tough to find if they are in 3 miles under water.

 

Despite the use of a sophisticated sonar of a nuclear sub, I doubt they will be found on time. Let's hope or the cause of the crash may well remain obscure for ever.

 

French: Air France plane hit the sea belly first - Yahoo! News

Air France Flight 447 slammed into the Atlantic Ocean, intact and belly first, at such a high speed that the 228 people aboard probably had no time to even inflate their life jackets, French investigators said Thursday in their first report into the June 1 accident.

Likening the investigation to a puzzle with missing pieces, lead investigator Alain Bouillard said that one month after the crash, "we are very far from establishing the causes of the accident."

Problematic speed sensors on the Airbus A330-200 jet that have been the focus of intense speculation since the crash may have misled the plane's pilots but were not a direct cause, Bouillard said, while admitting that investigators are still a long way from knowing what did precipitate the disaster.

 

51 bodies have bene recovered and larg eparts of the aiircraft including parts of the board kitchen that were floating almost intact.

 

I guess it appears the flight recorders are not likely to be recovered. Too bad...I had hoped that they would really guide the investigation.

In an earlier report, it was stated the plane entered the water vertically, and now its hitting the water in a level attitude....maybe some clues in the wreckage can led to those kinds of conclusions, but the flight recorders would sure help!

 

Isn't it interesting that a few days after the Air France A330 crash, Boeing delayed again the first testflight of the B787, which is also partially made of composite materials?

 

There is something not quite right about all these 'theories'.

At any given moment there are about 10/15,000 aicraft in the air. Most fly at about 30 to 40,000' and at a speed of about 900kmh.

They fly through bad weather all the time, and rarely break up in mid flight at cruise altitude and speed. Most bad weather crashes (all crashes) are on take off and approach, rarely at cruise.

The 'nose first' and 'belly first' means to me one thing, they are still just guessing. The non inflated vests means they did not have time (or opportunity) to inflate them and that is more likely to mean a break up over perhaps 2 or 3 seconds at 900 kmh. I cannot see an out of control ride down from 35,000' intact.

AFAIK, a pilot can guage air speed without his ASI, he has engine revs and fuel burn for 2 sources of info and they will tell him his engines are turning at cruise revs.

JMNHO.


John.

 

PS,

The Yemin Air crash sounds to me like pilot error on approach.

John.