Operation Typhoon

Hi guys i'm new to the these forums,I'm glad i found u guys, I'm trying to find some documents about General Fedor Von Bock involvments in the Battle of Moscow.I 'm trying to focus on primary sources, are there any of u that can help me out?

 

Hey! Welcome to these forums.

the only primary source I know of is ÷ïåîîáñ ìéôåòáôõòá [Militera Project] the problem is its in Russian, maybe you can translate it using google translator or maybe one of the Russian members can help you.



oh and I need English primary sources as well on Stalingrad

 

Considering the circumstances I don´t know if any German commander could have succeeded really.

However, I found in Forczyk´s book Moscow 1941 it being mentioned that "..after the annihilation of the Vyazma pocket von Kluge´s 4th Army accomplished virtually nothing."

"Kluge´s troops were the best prepared of any AGC´s formations to face the winter and the Soviet counteroffensive, but his selfish behaviour contributed to the ultimate failure of Typhoon."

 

Very Intresting

So Because of Zhukov's Excellent preparations in Moscow,none of the German commanders could accomplish success.Both the Germans and the Soviets were equally prepared for the harsh conditions of the winter?There were also other factors to be considered in this battle,but i'm in need of some primary sources to support both theories

 

A couple of things I have read and learnt during the years:

1. As the German thrust pointed towards Kiev the Soviets had time to make a huge defensive position in front of AGC. However, the attack of Guderian´s troops from the flank came as a huge surprise and allowed the huge pocket be formed at Byansk-Vyazma with the capture of some 500-600,000 POW´s. Guderian´s operation started some days earlier as the main operation. Without Guderian´s separate attack the Typhoon might have not gotten far at all.

Battle of Moscow

2. The Germans did not only concentrate their attacks on Moscow alone as we ( or me only ) like to think. The Forczyk book mentions that also several operations were going on in the AGC´s area towards north and south-east probably in order to secure the flanks. The author considers many of these operations worthless as the main battle was being fought in front of Moscow. These operations were planned by Hitler and OKH. Which to me seems Hitler never realized the dangers he was facing as he was at the same time making plans for "minor" operations as there was a battle for Moscow going on. In the future I intend on finding figures on men and vehicles used in the ops going away from Moscow.

Just some ideas from books....

 

and BTW Zhukov was not the only marshal in the Red army involved you gotta look at the other marshals and officers. Russians always have divided responsibility between commanders.

 

Yes, but Zhukov was probably the only one who dared say against Stalin in military matters.

 

Yes indeed!

Not to mention, Guderian was troubled by the signs that the Soviet defenders were doing a better job of organzing their counterattacks, even when they were outgunned, than they had before. While the Red Army infantry would attack frontally, their tanks would strike at the German flanks. "They were learning," Guderian conceded.

October 3rd, 1941

 

While their were others, Zhukov single handedly was put in charge of the defenses of Moscow and was immediately summoned by Stalin to return to Moscow from Leningrad, in which he too was put in charge off after relieving Veroshilov of his duties.

 

A good book you can get is Marshal Zhukov's Greatest Battles by Zhukov himself and Edited by: Harrison E. Salisbury and translated by: Theodore Shabad.
ISBN-13: 978-0815410980

 

Operation Typhoon has been defined as THE key defining moment in the war.
The moment when Germany irrevocably lost the war.

Another outstanding book (specifically a chapter) is Brian Fugate's Operation Barbarossa.

Order of Battle: http://www.ww2f.com/information-requests/14290-need-oob-operation-typhoon-w-map.html

 

Good maps: Operation Typhoon

For some reason, I am having trouble loading images after the latest ww2f.com php software upgrade.
- Quick Reply, and now "Reply to Thread" too.

 

Typhoon confirmed that Germany had already lost the war. Germany launched the attack becausetheir situation was so bad. The supply line had failed, the Soviets had far more troops then the Germans estimated, while German casualties far outnumbered replacements.

 

Don't you think that turning on Russia with matters unfinished with England counts as a far more significant turning point than any?

"Typhoon" was the fulcrum event in a long process that had begun at Dunkirk, and was to end with the Sixth Army exhausted on the banks of the Volga, wondering just what the hell they were doing so far from home......

 

You could look at the minutes of the Orcha conference (if they are available) where Bock still was defending the continuation of Typhoon,although it was obvious (even withhout hindsight) that to continue Typhoon was senseless.

 

I thought this was pretty interesting...Generals,oh those Generals...

In "Moscow 1941" Robert Forczyk claims that after the annihilation of the Vyazma pocket von Kluge´s Fourth Army accomplished virtually nothing.

Convinced that the Fourth Army was under heavy pressure ( according to Kluge ), von Bock allowed it to shift to a defensive posture. It is apparent now that von Kluge lied to von Bock about the scale of the Soviet attacks in order to gain permission for an operational pause, if not an outright shift to winter quarters.

Von Kluge´s army was the best prepared of any Army Group Centre´s formations to face the winter and the Soviet counteroffensive, but his selfish behaviour contributed to the ultimate failure of Typhoon.

 

I doubt this,if we look at the loss figures,we see another picture:
4th army :in october:
1-10:9600
11-20:6000
21-31:5400
in november:1-10:3900
11-20:5200
21-30:2900