Overlord: Same resourse

I know it may sound confusing but from a WW2 perspective as far as the Soviets are concerned I'll look the other way as long as they were defeating Nazi Germany .
I'm fully aware of what they did in eastern Germany in 1945 but who invaded who in 1941?
Germany started the war of annihilation and the Soviets were out for revenge.
Simple.


As for Soviet Russia in the Cold War, that's another matter.
By the way my Battalion was part of UKMF and if a war had started we'd have been deployed defending the Baltic approaches.

 

Somewhat shallow question, innit?

Who knows? The jewish jokes and humour (humor) of awordinyoureye.com

 

Its Putin's fault!

 

When you overlook one attrocity to counter another then you become an appologist. It is just like saying that if someone kills your mother and seek revenge and kill their sister, no matter how you look at it you are still a murderer.

 

Fair enough about the invasion line, fine go to war and attemp to win, but that dosn't give any reason for murder or anything like that, just like von Rundstedt said

Quote: When you overlook one attrocity to counter another then you become an appologist. It is just like saying that if someone kills your mother and seek revenge and kill their sister, no matter how you look at it you are still a murderer.(Von Rundtedt)

 

Do you know what the Germans did in Russia?
Think how many villages were wiped out, how many families thrown out in the snow to freeze to death.
How many civies locked in barns & churches then burnt to death.
How many civilians shot just for Russian.
The Nazis threw out the rule book when they went into Russia.
We can hardly condemn the Soviets for wanting their pound of flesh.
Eye for an eye

With Allies as I said before, sometimes you have to look the other way as long as they get the job done.
This was the job completed.


An Allied flag over Berlin & not the Swastika over London, that's all I care about.

 

Don't get me wrong I am in no way defending what the nazi did, I believe the commanders who ordered them should face a tribunal (just as many german officers did after the war) and any soldier who did that on his own accord should also be shot for breaking the rules of war, please don't misunderstand me, because I fully understand and appreciate the situation in Russia and in germany, but I still stand by von runstedt.

But with looking the other way, the soviets did remove the dictator hitler(which I am glad they did) but we must remember that he was replaced by someone who some say was even worse, just look at the cold war, and how long that lasted. What good is it removing one dictator for another just as cruel? was it just because stalin didn't try and invade there land, while hitler did?

 

This ranting on Russian atrocities is really getting boring.

The crimes against the Germans were commited by Russian soldiers on their own accord out of frustration and hatred for an enemy which entered their lives and turned them upside down by killing and destroying everything they ever knew or loved. As a result thousands were punished for it.


The Germans committed these crimes out of ideology and explicit orders from the very top against an entire people with the intension of wiping them out. Upon the completion of these crimes the soldier or soldiers were then rewarded......

As I have said before, had the Red Army fought with the same honor and chivalry in which the Wehrmacht had, then perhaps the German civilians too would have sufferd the same fate that the Russians had.

Just read my signature gentlemen and lets get back on topic.

 

fair enough, so what do you think about the original topic question.

 

By this time, even if the Germans possessed all which was mentioned and if by some miracle would be able to stop an invasion from the west, they were absolutely helpless against the juggernaut steam rolling from the east.

 

I'm not sure we discussed this in this thread, but wasn't the majority of the German troops tied up in any case due to the imminent threat of the real McCoy being Patton's landing with his command (1st US Army Group, see Op. Fortitude, which means Maskirovka in English ) in the Calais region?

So in any case the German forces would be tied up and/or divided.

In any case this does not reflect too well on the German ability to collect strategic intelligence, therefore making them susceptible to manouvres of the FUSAG kind. Command neing therefore weak, it is to be expected that large bodies of troops would therefore be unused.

Besides, the Allies showed once more heir ability to strike where the enemy was weaker or where the blow was unexpected, which are both fine principles for indirect strategy à la Sun Tzu or B. Liddell-Hart. So if there would be such a large preponderance of German troops in Normandy, then the landing would surely fall elsewhere making this what-if senseless.

 

Possible alternatives
1) Refocuse on the Italian Campaign possibly with an invasion of Southern France.
2) Liberate(there you go Jaegar) Norway and cut off Germany from Swedish iron ore supplies.
3) Launch a Baltic campaign

 

wlee15

Of course you mean LIBERATE Norway.

 

It is not as simple as that, whe you have the Germans with the same resouces, the German Luftwaffe would have the same parity with the RAF and the USAAF, meaning that Germany would have in it's pool of aircradft at least 7,000 heavy bombers and at least 13,000 frontline fighters in North-Western Europe, Germany would also have the same marine component as all of the allies combined, then Germany would have at least an additional 70 divisions 16 of them Panzer. And another point again with the Luftwaffe, it still intact suffering no appreciable attritian, meaning it is in full strength at the time of 4th June 1944

I can say without fear i would hate to be in Britain with the Luftwaffe having at their disposal 7,000 four engined heavies bombing the tripe outta me.

 

Following on form statment to Za Rodinu's statement, if the germans possessed that many planes they, wouldn't have to limit there plane us, so they could send recon planes in every direction from where the allies could possibly attack there fore eliminating surprise for the allies, and thus the Germans would be able to position there forces accordily, making the invasion very hard if not impossible, for the allies. well anywhere where the germans were currently concentrated. The allies would have to gain air superiority before trying for an invasion.

 

Another factor in this if the Allies had those recources for delivering those paratroopers over France and the low countries then Germany had the same numbers of aircraft and paratroopers then i would say Hitler would have used them.

 

If they had held the allied assualt then maybe the possible invasion of England with the Fallshirmjaeger. Operation overlord in reverse.

 

I heartily agree with you that the Allies didn't rely entirely on luck in mounting Operation Overlord but I have to regretfully disagree when you say that Sun Tzu has nothing to do with modern warfare displayed during WW2. A lot of his principles have been adapted and I believe, timeless.
My favorite Sun Tzu saying: "The best way to win the war is not to fight the battle at all." (Diplomacy first before fighting, get the best possible concessions)
Next favorite: "To defeat your enemy, you must first be his friend." (Value of intelligence: Find out everything about a potential foe.)

Sorry but I am rather fond of Sun Tzu.

 

nonsense you should never be sorry for something you like and are proud of.

I was referring to tactic's deployed , of course all the basic principles will always be around such as your examples plus the basic principles of, flanking, suppression fire, combined attacks, obstacles, both man mand and natural being used for defence, and so on and all those theory's of 'Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected'(thats my favourite).

Napoleon bonaparte probabaly even read these teachings, hence his saying. "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake", following the same lines as the example as above and a smart enemy hits you where you think you are the safest.

 

This is no longer a What-If, now it's masturbation!