PIRATES! AAARGH!

I can accept part of your argument Clint, but the problem as you point out is part of the time they are pirates/criminals. I am unaware of any concept of law that says that it is okay if you are a 'bad' guy just some of the time. The shipping traversing the area has no way to determine if a skiff is a fisherman or pirate until they open fire on them.

If you do not interdict the pirates in some manner, and you cannot convoy all ships or prevent any ransom from being paid, then the only viable option I can see is to allow those ships moving in the region to go armed to defend themselves.

 

I don't think it's any secret that I support the wholesale slaughter of people who make a profit through the victimization of others through force or fear. Freelance Piracy is conducted at the Pirate's own peril and they should be treated like Jack Rabbits during the dust bowl-herded into a fence and clubbed to death. These knuckleheads are a detriment to the world economy and I say God Speed to any solution to the problem; however drastic and in compassionate it may be.

 

So, anti-piracy privateers you say, eh? That could work too. The movie would be great too.

 

Therein lies the problem, unless you "assume" they are all pirates there is no way to stop the fishermen from being in their own waters. In that case you amplify the problem by making their lives worse and even more desperate. They aren't "part-time" criminals, they might be pirates once in their lives because of the desperation/poverty in their nation and for their family. Wouldn't you rob a rich guy to house/clothe/feed your kids?

This is an entirely different situation in this area of the world, one that hasn't been in existence in the past. We (the west) cannot even suppose we know the motivations for these acts of piracy. We can make them less than profitable, or we can attempt to remove the cause.

In the days of the Barbary Pirates, they used that as a source of national wealth justified by their own warped interpretation of the Koran. While he was one of the Ambassadors to France, and the Barbary Pirates were coming to the fore, Thomas Jefferson came up with an idea which would have been almost NATO-like, if the other nations would have agreed.

His proposal was that the British, French and Americans should create a fleet to safe-guard the merchant vessels through the Mediterranean, board and confiscate any pirate ship which attempted to take a ship hostage. Of course this was foolish on two counts.

One, the Americans had no war fleet to speak of, and two; the French and British were barely on speaking terms at the time. It was cheaper to pay the ransoms than it was to combat the problem.

That original concept did however have something to do with his approach to the Barbary Corsairs when he came into the office of President.

 

That was around the time of the French revolution/Napoleonic wars.
how about the U.N. finish their failure and the 90's and try to put some stability in that country in stead of worrying about Iran which pose no serious threat at the moment its obvious their bluffing I mean is that why they are in here to bring peace and what not?

 

I would say let the ships going through the area carry small-arms/repel-boarders types of weaponry, I wouldn't go mounting a Phalanx on a tanker. Too much opportunity for a nervous crewman to hit the panic button on the aforementioned honest fisherman. However, there is a line between law-abiding and criminal. Once crossed, there should be very very few extenuating circumstances where the now-piratical individual should not be repelled with force. Let the crews who are required to go through these waters defend themselves, instead of hoping and praying for a little luck and clear waters. Heck, if someone's worried about gun controls in friendly ports, have all the weaponry registered, and turned back in to the port/company quartermaster upon safe return (bonuses for confirmed kills, of course!), and only issue them to ships heading into "hot" waters.

I also agree with the Qship concept. If you see a boat heading your way and spot an RPG, that's probably not a legit fisherman. Dynamite fishing probably isn't as effective on the open seas and all. So, in that case, drop the facade, smoke em as you see em. Chalk up another small greasy spot on the ocean. Eventually word will get around, its not a very profitable thing to venture out on the waters with naughty intentions.

Of the two solutions, either by themselves will help. Both, together, would totally rock.

 

A58 has it. Q ships. A lot of killer weaponry could be carried on a small boat. I'd pay for that video.

 

Well pooh, seems like someone has stolen my idea already. I found this while researching Q-ships in wiki.

Use against modern pirates

Attacks on merchant ships by pirates originating on the Somalia coast have brought suggestions from some security experts that Q-ships be used again to tempt pirates into attacking a well defended ship .[4]
[edit]

I guess we'll all have to wait for the movie to come out now.

 

Heh. As long as Tom Cruise, Ben Aflec, or Leonardo DiCrappio are in it.

 

As pirates!

 

It sounds all well and good to lament the harsh conditions of a third world county and proclaim that if they just had a chance, and a lot of aid from us they would be peace loving, productive members of a world society. Have we not learned from Afganistan and other points of the globe that some people have no desire to move out of the 12th century? And that they actively resent any western attempts to change thier way of life. Didn't we try to 'save' Somalia once before? I think I have a DVD about that, Black something or other.

 

Without going into the politics and the strategic history of the region and colinisation and imperialism...as if...id say mate the folk living on beach villages..and the original pirates might point us back to their thriving self sufficient fishing and trading industries untill last few years..ch4 did a superb prog on em and the new incomers to areas..newer pirates that have caused major tensions with original dwellers that borders on hatred i havent seen since northern ireland..drugs..violence..money..and locals who became original pirates bieng pushed aside by a new mafia owing its allegiance to one religion..hard cash.

 

Actually the Barbary pirates got their start much earlier than then, when Jefferson was in G. Washington's service, and had been sent to France was when he made that suggestion. The pirates had been in operation for decades before then as well, and both the French and British found it less expensive to just pay the ransoms than build and man the ships needed to stop them. The Barbary government held that it was their right as Muslims to attack the non-believers, and throw them into slavery, or kill them at their whim. This set of modern pirates isn't government sponsored, of course the area has no government to speak of at all.

 

Did not the Barbary Pirates continue after the US action, only giving most US flag ships a wide berth, while still targeting ships of other nations?

 

There were 2 Barbary Wars.

The First: 1801-1805 (First Barbary War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) which was in response to the Ottoman Empire attacking US Merchant ships in the region. The high point of the action was Marine Lt. Presley O'Banon leading a group of Marines and Sailors ( and a few Greek and Arab mercenaries) to capture the town of Derna. The Marines got a sword out of the deal.

The Second: 1815-1816 (Second Barbary War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) was the one that dealt with US ships paying a tariff / ransom to be allowed passage in the Mediteranean. During the War of 1812 the British had denied passage of US ships in the region and the 'Barbary Pirates' took advantage of the British anti-US position during the period.

 

So jugs.. a sort of toll..we brits do love our tolls..if you can get someone else to collect it so much the better..and in dollars..rule britannia...

 

Urqh makes love to trolls and pays them in dollars? Damn, your accent is thick. Can barely understand.

 

I agree, and especially loved your last sentence ;-))

 

Amen to that and just tried to give reps for it.

 

Sorry for my excessive replies but, couldnt agree more ;-)) Let them eat C...................................................annonballs. :lol::lol: