Russian Navy "On Verge of Collapse"

Not on the price of wars and killing of people. But your attitude is different, ok. Bye in this thread again. There seems to be no basis between my views and most of you here. I already said, I should stick to the WW2 portion. of this forum. You guys can play warmongers without me.

 

True...I've certainly not meant anything personal...you argue well : )

 

Never said they didn't. You implied everyone in Eastern Ukraine, was anti-EU.

There is seldom such unanimity, on any political issue.

I paraphrase you, yourself "Have you asked all people of the Eastern Ukraine about their stand on the EU?"

So basically, we're left with the fact, that the situation is messy, that people are getting killed, and the vitriol getting thicker.

In the May 2014, presidential election, only 20% of the ballot stations in Donbass were open due to threats and violence by Pro-Russian separatists.

If you fear an democratic election enough to threaten voting, then you really have lost your mandate.

From the OSCE report on the May 2014 Presidential Elections:

[SIZE=11.5pt]"The situation in most parts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts significantly and adversely affected electoral preparations there. Serious problems in these oblasts included intrusion into and forced eviction and closure of DECs by illegal armed groups, intimidation of election officials, including abductions, death threats, forced entry into private homes, seizure of equipment and election materials, and the shooting of a candidate proxy."[/SIZE]


[SIZE=15.3333330154419px]"The media landscape is diverse and comprises a large number of outlets. However, the lack of autonomy of the media from political or corporate interests often affects their editorial independence. The adoption of a law transforming state television and radio into a public-service broadcaster, a long-standing OSCE/ODIHR recommendation, is a welcome development. Freedom of the media was severely undermined in the east, and to a lesser extent the south, where journalists and media outlets faced threats and harassment throughout the campaign period."[/SIZE]
(emphasis mine)

 

Agreed the Eastern portion isn't as keen mind you the Eastern portion is made up of Russians transplanted their by Stalin, With the Russians making up less then 20% of the population.

Yes Ukraine would have wanted money but Russia was offering the same thing. Dismissing one group and advocating another for both offering the same factor (money) is just stupid. Joining Russia economically would have made some gains but nothing major, Joining the EU the would be more closely aligned with a much larger market base offering more options to their economy.

As to NATO in 1992 and NATO today, Are you seriously justifying Russia's armed incursion in Ukraine on nations joining NATO non of which where the Ukraine its self? ..

- Hey umm those nations joined that group so we are going to invade you
- But we haven't joined them
- So? Others did so we going to do what we want..

Makes perfect sense I'm guessing in the Kremlin.

We defend the Kiev regime that kills it's own people, What about the riot police that fired live rounds into protestors under the previous government? Or better yet what about Russia allowing insurgents to fire artillery into Georgia then using Georgia's act of defence as an excuse to invade...

 

English is not my 1st language, but just found out, that their are more than enough US americans with sense (comments in the NY times - maybe they can write it better, so you understand)

Reader NYC 3 hours ago
I find it rather comical that even after it became common knowledge that the United States was supporting al-Qaeda in Syria--while calling them freedom fighters, protesters, rebels, etc--that some people are still unable to grasp that their government would support neo-nazis in Ukraine.

The uncomfortable truth is that a sizeable portion of Kiev's current government -- and the protesters who brought it to power -- are, indeed, far-right radicals. Ukraine is home to Svoboda, arguably Europe's most influential far-right movement today. Party leader Oleh Tyahnybok is on record complaining that his country is controlled by a "Muscovite-Jewish mafia". In Svoboda's eyes, gays are perverts and black people unfit to represent the nation at Eurovision, lest viewers come away thinking Ukraine is somewhere besides Uganda.

The far right Svoboda party, whose leader has denounced the “criminal activities of Jews" and which was condemned by the European parliament for its “racist and antisemitic views”, has five ministerial posts in the new government, including deputy prime minister and prosecutor general. The leader of the even more extreme Right Sector, at the heart of the street violence, is now Ukraine’s deputy national security chief.

And this is the government you and the President and John Kerry and Hilary Clinton are supporting and expect Russia to do nothing about it at its borders?

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Jag Pop Bushwoods, MD 3 hours ago
Why does this read as though it were a propaganda piece written for and by the Pentagon (with assist by the cabal of neocons in the State Department)?

Grik Boise 3 hours ago
US and NY Times think Ukrainian Nazi government needs help for their struggling ethnic cleansing project. More US taxpayer funds urgently needed to keep the killing going.

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• Luke W New York 3 hours ago
  The Russians have the whip hand in this war. They don't have to invest a great deal of men and material just enough to keep the pot simmering thus keeping the Ukraine economy on its back. Any US arms shipped into Ukraine can be easily offset by Russia.
  
  Kiev thinks the EU and especially Germany with its deep pockets should pump money into their coffers but both the EU and Germany while giving lip service to Kiev have no intention of serious investment in such a corrupt shattered country at war. They might as well burn the money in an incinerator or bail out Greece to more effect.
  
  If Poroshenko is waiting for NATO and sanctions to ride to the rescue he may have a long wait. Moscow seems determined to make sure that Ukraine does not become a part of NATO and most if not all of NATO agrees with this. His best course is to meet with Merkel and Putin in a neutral location and hammer out an agreement.
  
  The US should not be a part of these negotiations since this is primarily an eastern European matter and the Americans are incapable of being honest brokers over this issue because they have a different and more antagonistic agenda regarding Russia and will be happy to fight to the last Ukrainian.
  

ose Pardinas Conshohocken, PA 3 hours ago
I dream that I open up the NYT to read that Washington is doing something constructive in the world.

Not bombing or invading a country, not subverting a government, no setting up embargoes, not destabilizing a region, not supporting Sunni Muslim terrorists. But instead, practicing diplomacy, brokering a peace, closing down a torture center, putting its money into education, biomedical science, infrastructure and jobs, etc.

And then I wake up!

tony richard caribbean 3 hours ago
Trying to get a grip here. Washington insists without proof {except hearsay from Kiev and NATO's constant cry of wolf} that Russia is supplying arms and constantly invading Ukraine. So now Washington is OPENLY considering to commit the very same crime they are accusing Russia of committing, by supplying arms and personnel to their chosen side? Is that it in a nutshell?


SOURCE: NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/world/us-taking-a-fresh-look-at-arming-kiev-forces.html?action=click&contentCollection=Europe&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=article


And on other GOOD news: The eastern UKR militia, is making good progress, fighting morale of Kievs army seems to weaken, many refuse to serve the nazis

Hurrah !:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/world/europe/on-front-lines-in-ukraine-rebels-are-upbeat-and-eager-to-advance.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

"
On Front Lines in Ukraine, Rebels Are Upbeat and Eager to Advance"

 

Just shows an upside or downside of democracy...Everyone gets to talk, whether they have something intelligent to say or not.

 

HAHA, there you have your beloved Kiew army, read US/Nato puppets:

On the ground, captured and humilated. Serves them right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg5b9kLUWGM

 

Supporting Al-Qaeda in Syria? Yes use an uneducated person as your defense. In Syria their are multiple different groups ranging from the Syrian government, to the Islamic state, to Al-Qaeda to simple small groups that actually want a government that is democratic and gives equal rights. While some weapons have ended up in the hand's of Al-Qaeda and the IS most have gone to those that only want to live a decent life.

Hell footage around of such airdrops that have accidentally landed in Al-Qaeda or IS territory being bombed soon after.

 

Don't read too much into comments by trolls. Go to any British paper and the forums are full of Scottish Nationalist trolls blaming everything on a "UK Government plot" to supposedly keep us poor downtrodden Scots in our place.
It's BS, pure and simple.

 

#69-
"NATO bases surround Russia yet you cry fowl when a couple of aged bombers fly by your country..."

How 'bout dem Bears?

Why fly a bomber in international airspace. Just creates tension.

 

Here's the official NATO viewpoint on the Ukraine-
"Since Russia began its illegal military intervention in Ukraine, Russian officials have accused NATO of a series of provocations, threats and hostile actions stretching back over 25 years. This webpage sets out the facts."
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_111767.htm?

So ignoring obvious propaganda from mouthpieces like Russia Today, what's the Russian version?

 

It's "Da Bears"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahFya9H06rA

Da Bears wid Da Bomb!

Why fly a bomber in international airspace carrying one or more nuclear weapons. Just creates tension.


But I'm still trying to wrap my head around Sloniksp's
"As for the Russian navy, it is in need of constant upgrade and repair but "on the verge of collapse"? far from it."
with his
"NATO bases surround Russia yet you cry fowl when a couple of aged bombers fly by your country"

So, the Russian Navy is far from collapse...But...Their still flying aged Soviet era bombers...
Either the Russian Navy is on the verge of collapse, or the bombers are not as aged as Sloniksp would have us believe.

 

Have you ever been in harm's way friend?

 

Maybe C. Charlin is just right...... even if it is satire, still a lot of truth in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeZ3nCXyb_Q


@ A58: What do you mean "harms way" ?

Ah I see someone posted a NATO link, so Propaganda dircectly from the source lol.


Strange, when people aren´t in the Nato organisation anymore, they seem to change their mind and also speak (or allowed to speak) much wiser words.
Eg. ex - Nato & Bundeswehr general Kujat:

http://www.finanzen.net/nachricht/aktien/NOZ-Interview-mit-Harald-Kujat-Ex-Nato-General-4098173


Or here; he warns of what he calls "desinformation":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXA5DFQnXUU

 

More to come:



Here another example of "desinformation":

Description: Eine Handvoll Menschen die gegen Putin demonstrieren, finden immer einen Platz in ARD/ZDF! Sogar mit Interview! Demonstrationen gegen die Regierung Merkel werden nicht erwähnt!

Means: A few handful of people demonstrating against Putin are shown, but people demonstrating against MERKEL&Co. and for peace are censored. If you dont understand: People are yelling "warmonger" "bloody liers" at Merkel. Watch the video and see it for yourself I bet mass media does not report all the protest against western politicians and their agressive&unsocial politics......so I would say to Merkel&CO.even: "Traitors to the people". ca. 40000 in Berlin, tens of thousands in the Greece/Spain/Belgium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYeDs8c6yU0

"We need resistance against war politics":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAC-2yBsEmc


"Bought journalists" (17 year long ex-journalist about his book about media lies and the organisation behind it)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaZjvkPNjpQ

 

we want everyone's views don't we? even if I have my own, deep seated views, that I ''know'' are right, I still try to imagine the other sides' views....kind of like how I try to look at things ''realistically''.....

 

Yes you are right, I am sometimes also too extreme in my views. I am trying to find a middle ground from the propaganda of both sides. But I decided to let it go for a while and just watch.
Interestingly most predictions made years ago slowly come true however.... we are heading to 1984 folks, slow but sure. But maybe something will interupt....I was a kind of sheeple too up to ca. 2007/2008, so I admit freely I can be and was wrong Sadly most events unfolded like predicted.

Let´s see maybe I am completly wrong with my opinion, which would be good.


Re. 1984...here check this one, if this is true: "how to expose terrorists" (in France):

(btw. this site isn´t very reliable it is a bit too much conspiracy, but the story sounds genuine and the pic looks so too, seems to come from the French ministry.)

 

Peaks and troughs mate...a cycle...IMO

 

He hasn't been chair of the NATO military Committee for ten years, so it's only his opinion. No more, no less.

 

@ CAC: Can you tell me which meaning you mean: http://www.linguee.de/englisch-deutsch/uebersetzung/peaks+and+troughs.html ?

@ The Historian: Sure is his opinion, luckily we still can say it freely.


Sorry I know that I am spamming now, but I have to post this video from Austrian TV at last. You can see a Nato "journalist" - strange guy with glasses and Mr. Müller long time financial expert known as Mr. Dax here: Müller couldn´t hold himself and burst out laughing, when the propagandist tells, Putin is Hitler and the US has no interest in this region.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4paR7Fc54w

Last one I promise I need to work now a bit also, so you get rid of me now