Russian WW2 interesting stats and facts

http://stonebooks.com/archives/980721.shtml

Hayward, Joel S. A. Stopped at Stalingrad: The Luftwaffe and Hitler's Defeat in the East, 1942-1943. Lawrence, KS: University Press of Kansas, 1998

For the victory at Sevastopol:

Fliegerkorps VIII's contribution to the victory was substantial. In the corps' after-action report to Goering's command staff, dated 3 July, it claimed without exaggeration that its "unremitting fire on the city, port and airfields inflicted on the enemy the heaviest losses in men and materiel." Since 2 June, the air corps, including Wild's subordinate Fliegerfuehrer Sud, had conducted no fewer than 23,751 sorties and dropped 20,528 tons of bombs. Despite working ceaselessly every day, mainly in bombing missions against Soviet positions in front of the advancing infantry, but also in a wide variety of other tasks, it lost only thirty-one aircraft to flak and none to enemy fighters.

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On 10 October, Richthofen hurled his entire bomber fleet against the Grozny refineries. That fleet, like those of the other aircraft types, was now in poor shape. He had started Operation Blau with an impressive force of 480 bombers, of which 323 (a reasonable 67 percent) were serviceable. Now he had only 232 bombers, of which a mere 129 (55 percent) were serviceable. They could still deliver heavy blows to single targets, however. The damage they inflicted on Grozny reminded the air chief of attacks on Sevastopol; huge flames leapt from shattered fuel tanks and burst pipes, and dense clouds of smoke rose high into the air. He was delighted, joyfully noting in his diary the following evening that smoke clouds were still 5,500 meters high. He repeated the attacks two days later, with equally pleasing results.

It is remarkable that the Wehrmacht High Command did not order the temporary release of all, or at least most, bombers from Stalingrad for these attacks on oil fields.

 

So I suppose it is possible...





http://home.drenik.net/garda/efotke11big.htm

 

The battle of Tali-Ihantala summer 1944 when Finland was saved:

http://www.informationblast.com/Battle_of_Tali-Ihantala.html

Red Army lost some 600 tanks among other things.

A minor details:

On July 2 Finnish captured a radio message, according to Soviet 63rd Division and 30. Armored Brigade were to launch attack on on July 3 0400. The following morning, 2 minutes before supposed attack, 40 Finnish and 40 German bombers bombed Soviet troops and 250 guns fired 4000 artillery shells into the area.

It is supposed by the Finnish that these troops ceased to exist....



More pics:

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/Jatkosota_Rintama_cat010.html

[ 01. July 2004, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Kai-Petri ]

 

July 31st, 1944

By this time the Soviet offensive in Karelian Isthmus (south of Lake Ladoga) had been stopped by the Finnish Army and the fighting there died down. But in northern Karelia (north of Lake Ladoga) two Soviet divisions (176th and 289th) were advancing towards Ilomantsi, apparently trying to find a weak spot in the Finnish defences. Major-General Erkki Raappana, CO of the 14th Div, is given the mission to encircle and destroy the enemy divisions. For this purpose a force consisting of the 21st and Cavalry brigades and parts of the 14th Division is gathered in the closing days of July. The Finnish counter-attack begins in the early hours of the 31st of July.


August 9th, 1944

Finland: By this day the battle of Ilomantsi has ended. The troops of Finnish 14th div, 21st and Cavalry brigades have surrounded and destroyed the Soviet 176th and 289th divisions. The men of the divisions are able to escape through the woods, but all the heavy equipment are left behind.

During the ten days of fighting the Finns lose 1700 men KIA or wounded; Soviet casualties are estimated at 3000 men.

This is the last significant battle of the Finnish Continuation War.

http://www.angelfire.com/my/rememberww2/1944/07/31.htm

 

In order to celebrate the conquest of Helsinki, Finland´s capital, Stalin ordered Dmitri Shostakovitsh to make a symphony in 1939. (I think it´s the 9th.) The Red Army never played that symphony, however.

 

I wonder why...

 

Kai,

I think it might have been the Sixth Simphony. The Fifth was released in 1937 with a great success and the Seventh during the war, in 1941.

I didn't find any mention of the Sixth nor the Winter War.

 

Thanx Friedrich!

I´ll try to find the right one in my files. The version was actually played in Finland a couple of years ago publicly and indeed one Finnish war-time high-ranking officer was quite angry about that. Cannot say that he was wrong but as time goes by such things turn into curiosities.

 

Exactly sixty years ago the "Continuation war" between Finland and USSR ended this morning on 4th Sept 1944.

 

The Germans still got some 34,500 Red Army prisoners in 1945.

Frankson/Zetterling :Kursk (2002)

Maybe more a western front info but quite interesting:

The last two months of 1944 2299 tanks and assault guns and 18 new divisions committed to the west while 920 tanks and 5 divisions went to the east...

Battle of Bulge Robin Cross (2002)

 

The Battle/Bulge sounds like the answer. Get the allies "to make peace" then send the Divs.to the Eastern front.Roll of the dice.

 

Exactly. The Western Allies are close by, while those pesky Soviets are still wallowing about around Warsaw, with stretched supply lines after Bagration, and who starts an offensive in snow and mud anyway?

Then in January...*ooops*...the Red Army has just performed the fastest sustained offensive in the war (history?) during the Vistula-Oder operation, and are now within spitting distance of Berlin!

Well, I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

I must say that the German view that the Red Army will not attack early 1945 is one of the most stupid ones I´ve read on WW2. Very much wishful thinking... Why would they not attack if they did in Dec 1941, Nov 1942, Winter 44....just to name a few offensives.

I can sorta understand that Hitler wanted to eliminate the west first but to base the whole thing on Red Army not attacking...

 

Speaking of stupid! Heres a question for you. Was there ever any thought by the German Command to put all the available forces to the East to stall Russians and have the Allies advance much quicker. Surely by later '44 early '45 everyone in Germany new what the Soviets were capable of doing to the country once they crossed into it and what would happen to the population. Would it not have been better, was it possible for them to move all available resources to the east and prevent Russian occupation of Germany ( they didn't know that Russian occupation was already agreed to at Yalta!)

 

Why would Hitler want the Allies to advance quicker?

The germans had to defend all fronts otherwise it would have been an odd war, especially with all their western industrial areas being captured by the Allies.

 

Hitler knew that in late 1944 he was forced to have a victory if he wanted to win the war or delay its end. And he clearly said that "the Red Army" was too strong. That is why he chose the American sector of the front to knock them, and therefore, the British, out of the war by negotiated peace and then re-focus on the eastern front.

But neglecting the eastern front in the middle of the winter of 1944 when the overwhelmingly superior Red Army is already in or at the gates of German territory is idiotic. Specially if you take into consideration that the Red Army always attacked during the winter.

Disthrusting the Red Army attacking in summer 1943, well, it was justified: the Red Army had not attacked in summer and its winter ones had not been entirely successful.

But in winter 1944-45? After 3 winter and 2 amazingly successful offensives by the Red Army?

 

But one of THE primary reasons for Kursk['43] was to encircle the Russians there and 'shorten' the front there by being able to send more forces to the west. Was Hitler thinking the West Wall would stall the allies.Or that the allies "would see how evil the Russians are" and join with Germany. Surely,Gobbels used the Russian occupation thing to it's full advantage,instilling the Germans to fight even harder.

 

The Germans did have discussions in theory ( in table talk )of only attacking to the east and this increased when the war was closing its last stages.

Somehow though Hitler never had any realistic decisions on moving the troops although they wished that the allied would attack the Red Army with the Germans.

I suppose Hitler was not totally sure that the plan would work if he sent his forces to the east only and his Reich might collapse and only the western allied would benefit from this act. It might have led to war between the east and the west but Hitler could not be totally sure he would survive so he decided to wait as since autumn 1944 he expected the relationships between Stalin and Churchill/Roosevelt to break down any minute.

 

Partisans did not always fight just the Germans:



In march 1944 partisans attacked General N.F. Vatutin who died of his wounds 15th April 1944.

 

In the Ukraine, by example, the sufferings of the local population is indeed horrifying.

There existed a Soviet and an Ukrainian Partisan Movement, that oftenly fought each other and took severe reprisals against those villages which had 'supplied' —i. e. being robbed by— them with food.

In these cases, the peasants were starved by the stealing by both partisan groups, were killed in the fighting between each other, and above all, after being raped, robbed and killed by partisans, then the SS or the Wehrmacht came and shot everyone and burnt the village for supporting the partisans…

That's how the eastern front really was.