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Saab's "Ghost sub"

Discussion in 'Military History' started by GRW, Jul 3, 2015.

  1. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Another one?
    "Saab has unveiled what it claims is the world's most advanced stealth submarine.
    The A26 sub is 207 feet long, and features a 'ghost mode' to make it virtually undetectable when underwater.
    It also features a unique pod that allows special forces divers to enter and exit the sub while it is underwater.
    The A26 sub is 207 feet long, and features a 'ghost mode' to make it virtually undetectable when underwater.
    It can also 'play dead' at the bottom of the sea to remain unfound - while divers can still exit to lay mines
    Type A26 submarines are nearly 207 feet in length, 21 feet in the beam.
    The have an endurance of 45 days or 18 days underwater.
    They have a test depth of about 658 feet.
    They will be conventional diesel-electric submarines equipped with the Kockums Stirling AIP (air-independent propulsion) system for enhanced stealth.
    The firm has already signed a $1 billion deal to build two of the new submarines for the Swedish Navy.
    'Extreme stealth is at the heart of the Kockums A26 submarine,' the firm said.
    'Sweden is unleashing its GHOST (Genuine HOlistic STealth) technology, thus making the Kockums A26 submarine effectively invisible.'
    The order, with a value of about $1.04 billion, is for construction of two Type A26 submarines and conducting mid-life upgrades to two Gotland-class submarines.
    Work on the two A26s is to be completed by 2024.
    Type A26 submarines are nearly 207 feet in length, 21 feet in the beam and have an endurance of 45 days or 18 days underwater.
    They have a test depth of about 658 feet.
    They will be conventional diesel-electric submarines equipped with the Kockums Stirling AIP (air-independent propulsion) system for enhanced stealth.
    'Sweden has long experience in designing very silent submarines,' the firm says."
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3147721/Saab-unveils-superstealth-ghost-submarine-says-virtually-invisible-enemies-allows-divers-silently-enter-exit.html#ixzz3eqEmv9vT
     
  2. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Member

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    "Holistic stealth"??? So its not real stealth, just something in the stealth spectrum LOL
     
  3. green slime

    green slime Member

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    ??
    Holistic: incorporating the concept of holism, or the idea that the whole is more than merely the sum of its parts, in theory or practice: holistic psychology.
     
  4. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Member

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    Exactly; it would hint at them using a range of stealth techniques that each masks the various individual physical attributes/features attributes of the sub a little, adding up to being "virtually" undetectable as a whole...

    But none of them wholly stealthy on their own/when used stand-alone ;)

    Nor are they defining the scale used to measure "virtually", as in....not completely.

    Whatever else they're good at....Saab always were great at writing advertising copy....
     
  5. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    The problem is in some areas "holistic health" or "holistic medicine" is interpreted to mean something other than "real medicine" with some considerable justification. Not sure they want the implications carrying over.
     
  6. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Member

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    Indeed. Using the term thus would hint more at ...whatever they've done....it's more about diversion and masking the sub as a sonar target/sound emitter, rather than actual "stealth".

    Maybe they've managed to have it generate the sonar profile of some natural underwater event or creature, for instance...or, like a good ventriloquist, if it does make any detectable sound, it does so at a distance from the vessel itself. Artificial frequency modulation of any sound it makes, for example, so that it's at its loudest/most detectable a couple of hundred yards from the sub itself...

    Enough to give a false reading for a depth charge/sonar guided torpedo attack...
     
  7. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    From what I have read amonsgt various sources it is meant to have a crap load of sound dampening all over with quite a few systems suspended and sound dampening even between the bulkheads. Nothing new but a lot more then is standard among such submarines. Perhaps a new hull design to trick sonar but beyond that not a clue, Guess we will find out in a decade when the first one is ready.

    Also meant to have Lithium Ion batteries along with the AIP system.
     
  8. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    So, does it sort of hide, or pray for forgiveness just before it torpedoes you?!
     
  9. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Member

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    It's holistic, innit.....the target is made to want to be torpedoed for its own wellbeing...
     
  10. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Just employ a bunch of black hole scientists...they'd find it in a jiffy...for this tech to work into the future, being invisible wont cut it...one will have to instead "become" something...fool the instruments...they will find you, but if you are a sand bank or whale...or sea grass etc etc then the operator/computer will look elsewhere...

    It was an Australian that created the software for WiFi...he was creating a program to find black holes...
     
  11. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    Actually it was Australian's, not an Australian, CSIRO to be exact. And really all we did was take what every one else had done and stuffed up, And made it work.
     
  12. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Not the story i got...it might have been part of a team,but a single bloke wrote the program...trying to discern tiny signals against a mass of noise...
     
  13. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    There is more than one way to skin a cat, while radically new "stealth" hull design may provide leap in non detection I see less room for improvement in subs, than in planes there, doing away with the sail may help but sub shapes are already close to a non refletcton ideal and a dramatic improvement is more likely to be in coating than shape. An electric boat is potentially less noisy than a nuclear one, until someone manages to design a reactor with no moving parts in it's cooling system, and when addressing non detection for submarines it's the weakest link that matters, so a design approach that looks at all elements for noise reduction is the way to go, though calling it holistic may be bad press.

    There are two elements in avoiding detection in sub, cutting down noise against passive systems, and confusing active systems, until someone develops the underwater equivalent of AEW passive systems is that is what you will be facing most of the time, as active systems will alert an enemy long before you manage to get a viable return signal (roughly twice the range as the "wave", be it radar frequency or sound, has to go to the target bounce and go back) and it's relatively easy to design a weapon system that homes on an emitter so being active is painting a big target on yourself.
     
  14. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Good post...
     
  15. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Of course the active source doesn't have to be on the vessel(s) that are looking for the sub.
     

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