Sharia

You sound exactly the same as the Muslim women who appear on shouty TV where this sort of 'heated debate' is a staple. They use almost word-for-word the same argument. It is no more convincing from them as it is for you.
The problem with arguing with zealots is they never allow for the fact they are not 100% correct about everything.

 

I'm not a zealot on the subject at all, just pointing out actual reality vs false moral equivalency. Of course you're right that most Muslims, certainly American Muslims, aren't any different than anyone else. Most of them have adopted to our customs and legal systems without regret, and are better off for it.

The other reality is that Fundamentalist Muslim nations do not accept 500 years of humanist philosophy that has softened the rest of the world's religions. People are still being stoned, burned, mutilated, murdered and enslaved across the middle east - and all of that is legal under Sharia. It's the law in many nations, not just an errant individual acting outside of the mainstream like the individual Christian jerk that is used as an example of "Christians are just as bad, blah, blah, blah."

 

In the UK there have been a number of recent high-profile case of 'slavery' and it is a growing problem. It seems it is nearly always either by Travellers (Gypsies) or Eastern European's. In the former vulnerable people are used as slave labour and forced to work (for decades) for the Traveller Families building firms. In the latter it is young women trafficked as prostitute.

 

This is typical SJW talk. The responsibility lies with the perpetrators, not with Christianity or a Christian denomination - unless they supported or advocated the action.
Otherwise the American socialists and progressives should accept group blame for Gulag and Holodomor too.

And it's not about the Muslims, because many Muslims like the Kurds hate Sharia and this is not going to change.
But Sharia is spreading, more and more countries implement it, including Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, Algeria. Today maybe partially sometimes, tomorrow who knows.

And it's not about hijabisation but, among others, about this:
1. Under Sharia, Wives Can Be Beaten.
2. Under Sharia, Females Enjoy Fewer Rights than Males.
3. Under Sharia, Marriage and Sexual Intercourse with Pre-Pubescent Girls is Permissible.
4. Under Sharia, Wives do not Share the Same Divorce Rights as Their Husbands.
5. Under Sharia, Female Rulers are Frowned Upon.
6. Under Sharia, Wives Should be Subservient to their Husbands.
7. Under Sharia, Women are Deemed Lacking in Faith and Intelligence.
8. Under Sharia, Raping Female Captives is Permissible.

 

The Ugandan "Kill the Gays bill" was as a direct result of actions of Evangelical Christians from the USA. The Bill originally had the death penalty attached. In Africa the majority of Nations have laws against homosexuality and devout religious people in that continent (Christian & Muslim) seem to agree on the killing of homosexuals.
Congratulations-it seems there is a meeting of the Faiths after all!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2014

 

I know I'm late to the party but....

Saudi Arabia is the leader in this no? It is illegal to play music in public. Alcohol is forbidden and women virtually have no rights to speak off just to name a few...

I understand Pakistan and other Gulf States follow. Iran is beginning to outlaw it. Pakistan is trying to do the same. Honor killings for example are no longer acceptable and do not go unpunished.

If you ask me, it's their land and their religion. It's up to those who live there to decide their fate. Just don't come across the pond for a better life and start demanding the same shit in Christian countries. If one wants Sharia go to a country that practices the religion.

What's happening in Europe is disgusting. Merkell lost her job because of it. In Russia a year or so ago 50-100 of these refugees tried harrassing females at a club in a small town.... Didn't work out well for them.

 

Couldn't agree more. - "Respect our culture and religion!" they say - even though they don't know about or respect yours. - Worth noting they only do it because they know people will listen. A bit of "Our house our rules!" needs to be implemented. What happened at the club?

 

I would say the same for Italy, I still remember my aunts taking out a scarf entering church but never wearing one anywhere else, the custom mostly disappeared with my generation but still survives in the countryside. But it's pretty harmless as far as these sort of things go, think of it as a "dress code", nobody is shocked at having to take off shoes to visit a temple.

Public floggings as part of the law system are a different kettle of fish, but remember the "sodomy and the leash" definition of Royal Navy tradition, that's not that far in our past.
In the late XX century the western world had embraced the separation of church and state almost completely, but we seem to be slipping back now. Religion is the domain of absolute good and evil, a terrible idea to base a legal system on, day to day life needs to deal with the grey areas in between.

Religious extremists are another story again, I usually have a very high respect for them, I have a Benedictine monk in the family and he can be pretty "out of the mainstream" at times, but woe if that sort of mindset ever gets enough power to impose their view of the world to others, most of the monastic orders are "contemplative" so don't even think of it, but then you get Jesuits ... ouch !!!.

 

Rather reminds me of the old saw about a cop who pulls over a motorist for running a stop sign. The motorist proclaims 'but officer i did slow down before driving through the intersection', the cop then asks the motorist to step out of the car and proceeds to beat him with his nightstick furiously and asks 'now would you like me to slow down or stop?'

A very major difference between being stared at uncomfortably and being publicly flogged or stoned wouldn't you say?

 

You make the mistake of all 'religious' people' You believe any criticism of your version of religion is support for the 'enemy' version of religion.
I say the problems are the result of religion as a whole rather than specific to one sub-group of religions. You are all as bad as each other when you see a threat to your way of living.
I see no difference from the barbaric acts carried out in Africa by Christians than the barbaric acts carried out by Muslims in Middle East. Unsophisticated third world peoples being abused by religion is the root of it all and given that I am closer to Evangelical Christian hysterical people that Mad Mullahs then it is understandable I can comment more easily on their actions.

 

IMO it's pretty much impossible to be human and not to be religious (using the definition of religion as a system of beliefs). Religions are by their very nature alogical but some (indeed many) are illogical to lesser or greater extents. The problem then is not religion but exactly what beliefs are a part of it and how firmly people hold to those in the face of contrary facts and logic and their willingness to forcefully impose said beliefs. Christianity while problematic in some areas isn't as much of a problem as Islam especially in regards to the current topic. For one thing there is no clear equivalent of Sharia in Christianity. There's also no support for forceful conversion or imposition of a theocracy in the basic religious dogma (although there are some who push both of these concepts).

 

That is because you live in a Christian Society. I have no doubt someone brought up in a Muslim Society would say the same about his religion.
Sharia when applied as written is not oppressive and you have to submit to it rather than have it imposed. You self-select your inclusion. It has been corrupted by dogmatic devout Muslims into something else. Lebanon is a place where you can see no difference between murdering devout Christians and murdering devout Muslims. Even Buddist Monks have been seen rioting and killing. Sikhs & Hindus attack each other. Religion itself is the problem not any particular sect.

 

If it were religion...we'd see all and sundry committing these atrocities...and yet it seems to be just (pretty much) men and the majority of those relatively young...let's say the same age spread one might see in the army. So, I'd like to blame religion too...despite some pretty unambiguous messages (10 commandments being an example - that'll shall not kill) pretty simple stuff there, and certainly not inciting violence against anyone. I'm sure the Koran has something similar.
Some would like to blame Trump and take to the streets - again the crowds who are being violent and or destroying things are predominantly men and predominantly young.
So...I wonder is it religion really? Or is it just another power tool (not the wood cutting kind : ) against man's greatest competitors? That being women and other men...everyone in other words.
Is religion, the church just another branch like gangs, 'political parties' like the Nazis, sporting teams, the military...men predominantly young men exerting power?
We have lost most of our old, very old, manhood ceremonies...any we still have are just an excuse for a piss up...but once we had to go through trials, and achieve levels of competence, and even then lectured on our responsibilities as a (young) man...we gave ourselves lasting memories on our bodies to remind us our new place in the group and the responsibilities involved...one was protecting the group from attack...ill let the reader mull over that and come to his/her own conclusions there rather than bore you further.

 

If this is true...one could remove religion and something else would take its place.

 

Using this logic, slavery is not oppressive as long as you willfully submit to to it. Sharia isn't oppressive? Oh FFS. Sharia when fully applied is totalitarian.

You Sir, are wrong on this point.

 

A close look at those 10 reveal an fixation on rules about worshiping your God over than being nice to your fellow man.
The 'thou shalt not kill' ordnance is not something the Jews introduced. It was Law in even older civilisations and was just taken over by the newcomers.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2016/02/04/refugees-go-clubbing-in-russia-harass-girls-wake-up-in-hospital-the-next-morning/?client=safari

 

I agree that the fanatics are the biggest part of the problem but I'm sorry you are wrong about Islam itself not being a part of the problem as well. Things are what they are. Islam condones the imposition of rule by theocracy by violence and Sharia is at least implicitly included. To say that you have to submit to Sharia rather than have it imposed conforms to neither the spirit or the reality of Islam. Please also note that a "devout Christian" really can't commit murder if he did he wouldn't be a Christian (at least according to the Bible) where a devout Muslim doesn't suffer from that prohibition. That's not to say we haven't had fanatics in other religions as well but they tend to be operating further from the intent and message from their source books and dogma. Religion is not the problem blind obedience to often flawed understanding of religions is the problem or one of them. Lack of tolerance and understanding along with the desire for power no matter the cost to others also comes into play.

Or not. Indeed from my understanding that's not actually one of the ten commandments although it is often stated as such. Again from what I've read "thou shalt not commit murder" is a much more accurate translation if not how else do you explain the same document celebrating the deaths of thousands and tens of thousands along with those responsible.