This is BOUND to irk some, OH well

they blew my nans house up,in bethnal green.i certainly dislike them.lee.

 

As a boy I too played the standard good guys and bad guys and the nazis were alwasy bad guys... Ive been to germany... Albeit not for long and ive served in some inter armed forces schools with Germen Ncos and Officers.... most ive met were generally good people... I even got awarded a German army Schutzensneer badge in gold awarded to me for Marksmanship...Which in the past i wore proudly on my dress uniform... Im sorry but theyre is NO WAY i could handle spending 10 minutes at stormfront or some of those other pro nazis sites...I as you probably can tell dont have much tact... and Im not very nice about it... My wife is a Black woman and my son is biracial....I also know for a fact these little cretins wont give me a decent answer... either some bogus political or social rhetoric or the Standard crap about sweet tanks and uniforms..... IM still waiting for a well tought out argument as to why these people adore them.. guess ill have to think of this question like when my son asks me About why he cant see god after we attend church... Good question but no concrete answer...

 

Also not all germans committed war crimes or acts of atrocities... not all germen people are bad... be like me saying all iraqis are bad and evil it isnt the case.. it would be easier if theya ll were in some respects.. but theyre are alwasy shades of grey...my first tour in iraq we had an intrepreter who was an iraqi... he saved our tails more then once.. after my tour ended he was murdered as was his family for assisting us... that broke my heart.. he was a good man who wanted to bring peace and prosperity and who was willing to pay any price to do it...I wept openly when i learned of his death and i was UNASSHAMED....

 

There are all types out there. IMO all different levels and opinions. Some even going as far as creating or supporting scenarios where the Germans win. They have a hard time believing that the Germans were not supermen nor had "awesome" weapons. Nor were the " Greatest military force in history".Regardless of the facts or accurate information.

 

Funny thing is they fail to realize the germen soldiers werent all that different from themselves... its when ya start thinking your superman and ALL mighty things go bad fast.. Compound that with hatred and a sense of superiority and thats how ya breed fanatics

 

And this post inst about degrading the german people or theyre ancestors.. its about calling a NAZI for what they really are... VERMIN and explaining to me to help me and others understand the adoration ya have for war criminals

 

I for one think there is way too much stereotyping going on here and that is the problem. Personally, I do not have any issues with someone who states that they would serve in the Waffen SS or that they envy National Socialism. There are some aspects of those two which are 'enviable'. When I see a problem is when that person starts to promote anti-semitism or anything of the negative rubbish which Nazi Germany is infamous for.

I recall that in some previous thread about what branch we would serve, I chose serving in a Stug in the Waffen SS. Why? Where were the majority of the tank battles? The Eastern front. I sure as heck would not want to serve in a Sherman (no disrespect to those who did) but that is my personal choice. I believe the Stug to be a beautiful machine. So in saying that, does that make me a Nazi? Does that mean that I believe in all of that Aryan clap trap? Stereotyping is a nasty habit. We should dig in further prior to judging people.

I know of one former Waffen SS member (and some of you know some as well) who served, fought for Nazi Germany but we know them to be of noble character. Of all the existing Waffen SS divisions, how many documented atrocities have there been? Were there any atrocities committed by the Wiking Division? How about the Hohenstaufen Division? How about the Das Reich division? One, two, three at most? All the acts of the local commander. Have such acts not taken place on the Allied side?

When we stereotype, we drag them into the pot much like me being dragged into the same typecasting as those idiots who are in Iraq giving the average American soldier and the American people a bad name by raping, pillaging and teasing the Iraqi people. Mortmann, would you like to be compared equally to such filth? Would those acts not be catagorized as 'atrocities'? The acts themselves are atrocious. It only takes the acts of a few to ruin the reputation of a whole people. As a veteran of this nation's questionable overseas' contingencies, I definitely would take offense to being compared to them. Yes, we may be prosecuting such filth but the damaage is done. Do the Iraqi people really believe that justice was done? All that is happening is such filth are fueling the ranks of the terrorists.

I look at it this way. I judge people for their own actions, not the actions of their fellow man or government. I have friends who are of the Islamic faith and they have always treated me and other non-muslims with respect. I also have German friends and some who fought in the war. Some who have committed what we would call atrocities but I get along with them nonetheless because I am fortunate enough to know their whole story. I don't judge against them because their faith demands that they either convert me or kill me. I don't hold it against them if their government says we are subhuman. As long as they treat me as a friend, then I shall return the act.

So when I come across these folks who are touting Nazi rubbish, then I steer away from them. No need in giving them the attention they are seeking. It will only bring down the quality of this forum. Dang, too much thought on my part. I will stick to Historical facts and research.

 

Good point PZJGR... and finally a well thought out one concerning this issue..

 

Thank you sir. I think I filled my weekly quota of typing on this one post. Whew.

 

LOL You sure did. I can understand those with a family history of military service in the German military being proud. I think that it is those who do not have that history or that are misinformed, ignorant or just choose to ignore the facts that glorify and adore them are the ones Mortman is trying to understand.

 

German blood does not make a Nazi.
Like that's important.
You are what you do.
No "one" is all the rest and vice-versa.
One at a time, unfortunately is difficult (if not impossible) in a war.
It's the "Phonies/Liars" that are hard to take.
The ones who were until it was better not to be, (when their ass was in a sling, they were going to lose their business, life, home, land, wealth) and if the situation changed again, they were right back at it.
SPR
"Uppem" Bang ! (That's for "Fish")
"I like Amelican"......like that 30-06 ? Made in America. By by "Steamboat Willie"....Toot toot.

 

Nothing wrong with being proud of your ancestory... My grandfather on my moms side served in the german army in world war 1.. he imigerated to the US in the early 30s and married my grandmother... he was a butcher by trade and a kind man by all accounts to bad he passed before i was born...

 

But a lot of these young people dotn wana discuss the Evil the nazis did. its all for them about sweet uniforms and what germen smg was better... they fail to remeber or selectivly dont wana discuss the little things like the genocide of the jews the crimes commited in europe and the fact they LOST... and were better off they did lose

 

Now for myself I try to post articles and info about all aspects of the war. Not just the "Cool" things LOL . Not just uniforms or weapons,Ect. Especially the more personal views and opinions of what it was like to live through the war. Or logistics.

 

My "Old Man" used to say (scream actually).....
We took on one of the Biggest, Best Trained, and Best Equipped Armies in the World........
And We Kicked Their ASS !

 

Youre father was a Hardcore dude.. God bless him LOL

 

After reading a bit on him I'm not sure why he would be considered a genius. Most of his operations ended in failure. The Italian one appears to have been planned by others although he did a good job in his role. He appears to have been intelligent, brave, and bold. Certainly traits that are admirable. He also appears to have been something of a glory hound and a standout prospect for the German propaganda machine.

 

A big reason is that the Germans (ie their officers, etc.) wrote far more books that saw wider distribution than anything written by the Allies.

Ask yourself: How many books on British tanks have I read? How many on American? The US military published huge amounts of interviews with German generals. They also published detailed accounts of most of their operations. Why? Because these were to allow US officers to examine how their opponets fought. These officers knew how the US did things. They needed to know how the enemy operated.
On top of this, US, British and, Russian stuff in many cases remained classified. The Soviets in particular have been difficult to penetrate until recently. The British often classify things for a century or more and don't downgrade it like the US periodically does.

The end result is/was that many fans of WW 2 have read far more "stuff" on the Germans than the Allies. This colors their perception. When what they read was written by the best the Germans had to offer they take this as the norm.

For instance, did the US develop any truly heavy tanks? The answer is yes. But, I would defy those enamored of the Germans to name several of them. When what these same individuals have is a collection of books and in particular "coffee table" books full of glossy pictures of medal bespeckled Germans what do think they will be drawn to?

The answer is simple. It is just a lack of knowledge on their part. When this turns to willful ignorance (I exclude teenagers and near teen adults due to their universal brain damage) I have problems.

 

m26 pershing is one LOL