Discussion in 'Military History' started by Soviet man, Aug 15, 2008.
And is NATO prepared to accept a tripwire like this?
Lovely last sentence
As well Sweden has been talking of changes to its foreign policy lately. If Sweden should join Nato, then Finland practically would be forced to decide its fate concerning joining Nato. Or teaming with Russia. I do hope Sweden decides to stay out of Nato.
Yes indeed, German advisors had also been involved - Logistics and Communications.
As for my part, I do not agree to the extension of NATO into Georgia or other former USSR Republics. As for the former Block countries it seems more appropriate.
IMO, NATO and Russia should keep a neutral buffer between them, in order for diplomatic and normal neighborhood relationships to develop between Russia and its former Republics, that is not influenced by partially arrogant behavior towards Russia (Not saying that Russia behaves otherwise)– knowingly or assuming to have NATO behind them if the Bear would hit back at them.
NATO needs to keep Russia clear about its intension to back former Republics in the case of Russian aggression, but I feel that Russia would be willing to take this “hint” from NATO far more than being addressed in an inappropriate manner by its ex republics.
If we like it or not, everybody incl. Russia needs to keep his face.
If this is true, good for Russia, though I think it a bit excessive.
I have read from various western news articles that Russia's State Interfax News reported that two Russian Soldiers where executed by firing squad for looting the homes of Georgian civilians.
What is prompting Sweden to take this potential step, Kai? That would certainly serve to distance them from their neutrality stance they have maintained for, goodness, how many years.
Why would Nato want to have friction with Russia again over Georgia and Ukraine?
Sweden join Nato? Wow that would be a surprise! What about their legendary neutrality?
Finland teaming up with Russia while being in the UE . That would be an unbearable situation.... so yes, let's hope Sweden takes that into account.
Breaking: Sweden Cutting Military Ties with Russia and considering turning Gotland Island in the Baltic Sea to a NATO listening Post In Response to Ru
Trend News : Sweden to freeze military cooperation with Russia
What would Finland do? That is hard to answer as actually the question of joining NAto has been more the political question than other alternatives.
Guys! Whatch another false of western television. See this video YouTube - 911 comparison with Georgian Crisis gets censored on TV
Look how many false on your TV. Its all bought by George Bush or others who hates Russia!
Have you any idea how ridiculous that suggestion is?
PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA DMITRY MEDVEDEV: You know that we have always been a peace-loving country. Practically at no time in its history did Russia, the Soviet Union, or modern Russia ever start hostilities.
President of Russia
Georgia, Russia exchange war prisoners - Yahoo! News
Thanks for the info about Sweden and Finland Kai. Inceredible Medvedev has such a short memory.
The Poles or the Baltics will appreciate.. Good to know we are dealing with flower power here.
That quote took some chutzpah to utter.
Damned translators! The Russian text said:
That makes it a bit more kosher :lol:
Well, you know something like Stalin once said;"These are only defensive actions performed on the enemy gound..."
I doubt too many will swallow this peaceloving speech whereas on the ground the tanks keep rolling.
Oh, Skip, will you stop that ranting or I'll cut off your Erdgas supply
August 17, 2008: Russian politicians are working on establishing South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent nations. These two provinces, populated by people who are not ethnic Georgians (the Caucasus has dozens of such groups, which is one reason this is such a violent part of the world) are not large enough to survive economically, and will no doubt eventually ask to become part of Russia. This will annoy the UN, as Russia will have, in effect, taken two provinces from neighboring Georgia, and gotten away with it. Russia has been doing this sort of thing for centuries, and considers it necessary to its national defense, and perfectly all right. This plays well inside Russia, not so well elsewhere.
August 19, 2008: Russian troops began withdrawing from Georgia, slowly. It will probably take them weeks to complete the process. In the meantime, they will continue to loot, and generally punish, the Georgians, in order to let everyone know who calls the shots in the Caucasus, and anywhere along the Russian border. But this punitive operation did not have the desired effect. The Czechs, Poles and Ukrainians all promptly agreed to work with the West to improve their defenses against Russia, and the possibility of becoming "another Georgia". There was much talk about a return to the Cold War. But this time around, Russia is hardly a superpower. Russia has nuclear weapons, but beyond that, their military is decidedly second rate. Against a third rate opponent like Georgia, that's sufficient. But against the West, not so much. Russia's European neighbors appear ready to side with the West, even in the face of Russian threats.
August 20, 2008: The Russian military demonstrated great resourcefulness and innovation during its recent campaign in Georgia. This includes the strategic planning, because the war was a set up. Russia used only one infantry division for the invasion, and had held training exercises in July. The increased border violence by South Ossetian forces caused the Georgians think they could retake the lost (in 1991) province. Less than a day after the Georgian forces entered South Ossetia, the Russian force of over 20,000 troops (including combat experienced Chechen counter-terror units and North Ossetian militia groups) came in. The Georgians were not prepared for this, even though the Russians had been making a lot of noise, for weeks, on the Internet about the growing "crises" in South Ossetia. By August 8th, the Russian Cyber War preparations became evident, as most Georgian media and government web sites were shut down by Russian attacks. It was the Internet version of the blitzkrieg, and a blow to military and civilian morale in Georgia. But on the ground, the combat experience of the Russian troops quickly translated in defeats for inexperienced Georgian troops. Despite several years of training under the supervision of Israeli and American combat veterans, the Georgians were still not as effective as the Russians (who have been fighting in Chechnya for over a decade). Although the Georgian anti-aircraft units brought down some Russian jets, the Russians basically ruled the skies and used that to constantly pick apart Georgian units. It was Russian air power the prevented the Georgians from mounting an effective defense.
Russia told the UN that it would veto any UN attempt to pass resolutions urging Russia to hurry up and get out of Georgia. The Russian success in Georgia was very popular inside Russia, where there has been growing unhappiness over Russias loss of empire and superpower status in the early 1990s. Nationalist politicians are talking about rebuilding the empire. This could get tricky, and is one reason the Russians get so excited when another of their neighbors talks about joining NATO. That organization is designed for mutual defense. You attack one NATO member, you attack them all, and two of them (France left NATO in the 1960s, but is considered an associate member) have nuclear weapons.