Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

US Army dumbing down?

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by Chuikov64th, Feb 1, 2008.

  1. Chuikov64th

    Chuikov64th Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    26
  2. Albert Speer

    Albert Speer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    5
    As long as we have the uneducated masses that still believe that shootan guns is cool we will still have a military. Not to mock our brave men and women, some of them are the finest human biengs alive. Unfortunatly a high percentage of the military is still Naive young men who's knowledge of the middle east consists of the Iron Shiek v.s. Sargent Slaughter. I'd love to go on more of a rant but Shot at love w/ Tila Teguila is on. Im out.
     
  3. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Messages:
    8,809
    Likes Received:
    371
    Location:
    Portugal
    [​IMG]

     
  4. Richard

    Richard Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    5,847
    Likes Received:
    333
    We got a short fall of troops here in the UK as people see no real reason to be out there and even troops are not renewing there contracts and leaving the army, many time I have heard them ring in on talk radio stations saying they love the army but our government has stabbed them in the back. Politicians are very good at starting wars but fail to take in to account how to end it. Are leaders today seem so weak when compared to the past.

    Some one has to grab the nettle even if there hand bleeds and stand up and sort the mess out.
     
  5. Miller

    Miller Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    368
    Likes Received:
    3
    There are plenty of guys who want to go to Iraq or Afghanistan. Most of the guys that join to fight though are going into the Marines. The Army is getting more recruits on the "we'll pay for college" deal so you can get ready for what you will do after the military.
     
  6. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    5,945
    Likes Received:
    763
    Location:
    Phoenix Arizona
    My question is: Is this even possible?
     
  7. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    Messages:
    17,573
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Location:
    Alabama
    Just interested.
    Does the lack of high school diploma demonstrate that someone is dumb?
    I'm throwing fuel on the fire...
     
  8. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    5,945
    Likes Received:
    763
    Location:
    Phoenix Arizona
    I know the Army (and other branches) will try hard to help get you Getto Education Diploma (aka GED) if you don't have one.
     
  9. skunk works

    skunk works Ace

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,156
    Likes Received:
    104
    ...and just what are the universally accepted educational requirements which must be achieved before becoming a cook, truck driver, warehouseman, mechanic, or one of the Mamas & Papas for that matter?
    I know to pass the physical you have to be able to see lightning and hear thunder.
    Did Napoleon have this press problem? Caesar? Lord Nelson? Alexander? Genghis Kahn?
     
  10. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2001
    Messages:
    5,368
    Likes Received:
    334
    No but their armies were full of rapists, murderers, theives, paedophiles and assorted other bastards, so maybe some standards are worth while.
     
  11. skunk works

    skunk works Ace

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,156
    Likes Received:
    104
    More jobs for social workers, Psychiatrists, counselors, teachers, IQ testers, Ink Blots, anatomically correct dollies, all to be good enough to be cannon (arrow, spear, sword, club) fodder?
    Do like they all did, lead into new areas with diplomats. If they come back dead (Gladiator), send in the animals.
    Officers (should be), are Gentlemen, the rest can't be. Unless you have no intention of winning the battle. You're not playing checkers.
     
  12. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Messages:
    8,809
    Likes Received:
    371
    Location:
    Portugal
    So are you advocating a return to the Oriental Hordes concept? If that's why having bothered the Cold War when you could just have bought the copyright for a low price?

    Are you sure you just want a Cannon Fodder type army or a sophisticated and flexible force able to operate at all levels, with thinking officers and NCOs?

    You know that's bullshit.
     
  13. skunk works

    skunk works Ace

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,156
    Likes Received:
    104
    There is room for both, in the army and in the world.
    If you've troops in the trenches, getting shelled, unable to move, surely dead if the enemy advances (or a soak-off attack), you'd want nothing but "Graduate Degree" students there?
    The daze of super-tech war where you operate UAVs from your lazy-boy at home aren't quite here yet, with robots to cook food, clean out toilets, all vehicles drive/maintain/re-supply themselves.
    Not the Hordes Concept, (although the "Human Wave","Banzai Charge", the ol "Over the Top Boys", "Charge of the Light Brigade", etc.)(has proven to be extremely popular throughout the ages), there will be jobs for any level in the service. Unless of course it become "Top-Heavy" either way.
     
  14. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2001
    Messages:
    5,368
    Likes Received:
    334
    You say that and yet the average infantryman is expected to use complex equipment (radios, vehicle maintainance, weapons systems), deal with difficult civilians in a relatiely sensative and fairly intelligent manner all whilst doing what is actually a fairly complex job in and of itself (at least in our army). Initiative is also essential, in an asymmetric conflict soldiers at all levels must be able to deal with a new and changing environment, adapt tactics, learn new ones and put them into operation. It is no longer a case of stand in a line and do what your officer or NCO's tell you, that is the very essence of 'mission command' so beloved by all the armed forces.

    Finally, soldiers are not cannon fodder, the impression that they are is precisely the reason everyone seems to be having recruiting issues.
     
  15. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Messages:
    8,809
    Likes Received:
    371
    Location:
    Portugal
    If you let your troops get stuck in a situation like this then you'll deserve everything you're gonna get!
     
  16. skunk works

    skunk works Ace

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,156
    Likes Received:
    104
    You will need higher skills, social, mental, political for a "Police Force Army". This has arrived only recently.
    The touchie-feelie, politically correct, sensitive, polite, and understanding Barbarian.
    The kinder-Gentler "Hun".
    The world is upside down, and in this day and age you will do more time for kicking a puppy (not that I ever would), than involuntary/vehicular manslaughter.
    Being careful not to offend your enemy, or not knowing who or where they are....makes you a clay pigeon. (better than cannon fodder?)
    You want to be Police....be Police,
    You want to have warriors, make warriors,
    You want to fight a War, don't do it with the Police.

    from ZULU..."He's a Pealer 716, come to arrest the Zulu's."
     
  17. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2000
    Messages:
    8,386
    Likes Received:
    887
    Location:
    Jefferson, OH
    I have a nephew who joined the Marines with promises of adventure and elitism. Now, he can't wait to get out. He is not the smartest tack on the wall and yet he says there are alot of dumb guys in the Marines. I about cracked up when he said that. Yet, it is true. Only the 'crazys' want to stay in. My nephew did go to Iraq when he was told that he would not at the recruitment center. He is getting out with no type of job trade or traininig. It is a mess. At least my son joined the Air Force which is a whole different story along with I believe the Navy. I just pray for a quick solution so we can bring these guys back.
     
  18. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2001
    Messages:
    5,368
    Likes Received:
    334
    I could not agree more, as a reserve officer who really wants nothing more in the world than to go away on a fighting tour (really, it is my ambition), we have reached a rediculous time in the history of our military when we rely so much on the intelligence of our soldiers and yet we are refuing to educate them. I know the US army is very different in terms of training/mission command yet the problem remains the same.

    Just a shame your average civie is stupid too eh/
     
  19. Lazy-Army

    Lazy-Army Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    1
    Who knows If our millitary Is going stupid but, all I know Is that were having a bunch of people who don't want to have anything to do with the army or In any case U.S. Army because that we are dumbing down or not.
     
  20. Jaeger

    Jaeger Ace

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,495
    Likes Received:
    223
    This thread brings about an interesting point.

    Mission command that has been named on a few occations can only be possible with 'bright' soldiers. But this has nowt with the ethic fabric of the soldiers. In fact history has taught us that the best soldiers were the worst and vice versa.

    Now who in WW2 used mission command? Oh that was the Germans wasn't it? And what army pillaged/burned/raped Europe and the USSR. The very same German forces. The Thinking Soldier.

    The PBI in the British army had the awful autocratic orderbased command that sometimes meant that the first enemy shells landed as the Brits were having their O-meetings. According to books such as 'raising Churchills army' the Army got the scraps that the RAF and RN didn't want. Still they behaved.

    If you want to build a proper army to match the various duties that is expected today, you need high standards. Good selection of Officeres and OR, good training and a proper doctrine.

    As our Cavalry Rupert say the AVERAGE soldier is expected to use a lot of complex kit, and to make some hard decisions. I read an article in our mag. (army) that the soldier today has about the same challenges as a company commander had in the 50-60ies.

    The real twist in producing our new soldiers is that we have to teach them a lot of law, complex equipment and tactics. In many cases we teach them two sets of 'drills' one for war and the other for peacekeeping/policing duties.

    In our effort to manage this the Norwegian army offer you education up to Uni level, and in return you have some duty years. I feel that this work very well. Pay is also an essential issue. One of my sergeants landed in Afganistan with the US Marines and he received £5200 a month for his duties as a sapper. He was securing the airfield in Kabul.

    My peronal observations is that the lads who are coming into the Territiorials, now have a high level of competance and surprisingly many have experience from abroad.

    Many speak of the German army in WW2 and write volumes of how good the officers were. Personally I am more impressed with their education of the common soldiery. But then again their indoctrination is not much to be impressed with.
     

Share This Page