Which Fighter, Spitfire Vs Me109

IIRC The cannon was removed in the field because of the unrealibility..

 

That is my understanding. The DB600 and 601 both could mount a shaft cannon but the early mountings suffered from vibration problems that led to jamming of the cannon and poor accuracy. As a result virtually all were removed or not installed at all. It took through the F model to get the installation right so it worked.

 

easy to answer. the me-109E. proof: there were more spitfires shot down in the battle than '109s. the only advandatage the spitfire had was maneauverability, and maybe duration since it was flying over its own airfield. but the 109 had better all-around qualities and all-around features enable you to shoot down more planes.

meaneauverability keeps the other guy from shooting you down. but you're nowhere near to shooting him down.

 

but the spitfire was faster then the me109 at level flight under 15000ft, the me109 could just climb faster due to the powerful engine. This gave different tactics and situations for which you would place your planes. The Me109's during the BoB on close escort lost all there advantages over the spitfire and even the hurricane

quote:the me-109E. proof: there were more spitfires shot down in the battle than '109s.

As for this you have to remember that the British only had fighters defending so that was all that was targeted, while the Germans had all there differnet figthers and bombers to target, so they would be less losses in anyone type.

for example say these are results
me109 lost 20
HE111- 20
Do17- 20
Ju87 - 30
Ju88-30
eguals = 120 planes lost but only 20 109's

while the british
Hurricanes lost - 60
Spitfire - 60

equals = 120 figthers 60 of each

which means that the same amount of planes were shot down but actually less 109's overall

 

as an addtion, the best german bomber in the battle was the ju-88. i can't believe your numbers. there were fewer 88s shot down than other bombers, know why? because a fully-loaded '88 can outdive both a hurricane and a spitfire.

 

that was an example not real figures I stated that at the beginning of the post. But that is why more british fighters were shot down compared to me109's

 

The Do17 and He111 units were more numerous than those operating the Ju88. As a point of interest ( according to Ramsey, 'The Battle Of Britain : Then & Now' ) a total of 50 Ju88s were brought down over the British Isles in September alone.....

 

and what about losses on other bombers and fighters?

 

I just don't have time to count through the full lists right now. The losses were sufficient for the Luftwaffe to lose the Battle of Britain......

 

Actually there were more 109s lost than Spitfires.

The RAF lost about 385 Spitfires during the battle, the Luftwaffe 600 109s.

The RAF and Luftwaffe fighters had different tasks.

The RAF fighters were tasked with shooting down German aircraft, with the emphasis on bombers. The Luftwaffe fighters were tasked with shooting down RAF fighters.

What's remarkable is that the RAF almost achieved parity in fighter losses, whilst also shooting down large numbers of German bombers.

The RAF lost about 950 Spitfires and Hurricanes. The Luftwaffe lost about 835 109s and 110s. However, the Luftwaffe also lost about 1,000 bombers, dive bombers and recce aircraft, which was the RAF's primary aim.

 

Yes I know I tried to expain all what you have written here.

 

And out of those about 950 Spitfires and Hurricanes did the pilots live to fight again as opposed to the pilots and crews of the 835 109s and 110s along with the almost 1000 bombers?

 

I copied this from my computer thought it would be interesting to this thread

 

Gardner makes an excellent point in this thread!

I think that the Spitfire was the better fighter although the superiority was very minor at best. In an engagement between a Spitfire and 109 it came down to tactics and pilot skill. The plane in the best positon and with the best pilot would be the likely victor in an encounter between the two planes.

Dont understimate the ease in flying a spitfire compared to a ME109. For me this is one of the reasons for choosing the Spit as the superior plane. Young recruits could be quickly trained to fly the spitfire while the ME109 required a great deal more experience. These two are arguably my favourite planes of the war and are particularly interesting because they were both interceptors.

It is also harder for the planes trying to intercept the bombers, the escort planes can sit themselves at high altitude and respond to the attacking movements of the interceptors. This is partially why the Luftwaffe got so hammered by the US later in the war. Obviously attacking a well protected formation of B17's and B24's protected by P38's and P51's is harder than attacking what the British had to in the BOB!

Cheers

 

Just to this the German escorts were ordered to stay with the bombers as close escort and everytime the German pilots would see the enemy they would want to increase there speed to combat speed to be able to manouvour and better position themselves with there advantages and what not to deal with the incoming fighters. However everytime the pilots would go to increase speed the commander would tell them to stay in position and protect the bombers not go chasing the RAF planes all over Britain. It gave the bombers the sense that they were being 'protected' and moral would be higher then if the escorts werent there, this is why the Luftwaffe starting using fighter sweeps before the bombers arrived.

During the air Battle over europe the allies enjoyed air superiority and that is why the germans had such a hard time penertrating the formation defenses every gun aimed at your squadron can cause a few losses.
and how is it harder for the Germans to attack allied bombers then for the allies to attack German bombers, the allies had the P-51, spitfires and the P-38s and the Germans for escort duties had the Me109 and the Me110 although the Me110 lacked in a fighters role.

If anything during the BoB the Hurricanes would have a better chance at getting through defense firing afew shots and getting how again due to there ability to sustain heavy damage compared to the Me109's doing the same thing.

 

..Martin Bull.. hang your head in shame ....Spitfire Vs Me 109 - Battle of Britain time frame....although -unbelieveably- there are some German historians who would still claim that the Luftwaffe did not lose the BoB, even that there was no battle at all, you have to say that the Spitfire kept Britain in the war in 1940, thus enabling the British to go on to fight the Battle of the Atlantic & providing the Americans with a launch-pad for the invasion of the Continent and above all ensuring that the Russians did not end WWII by occupying the whole of Europe. Victory in the Battle of Britain was a necessary pre-condition for all the later successes...for which the Spitfire & 'The Few' were chiefly responsible !

What was it again that Adolf Galland said he wanted ..???!!!!

 

I voted for the Spit . Galland wanted his pilots to fly those.

 

Hey - I was trying to be cold-bloodedly impartial and objective.... I still feel that the 109 just - only just, mind - had the edge due to its fuel injection and cannon.....

But as for the Luftwaffe really winning the BofB ( 'They just thought they'd let the RAF off the hook', ' They didn't really want to invade' 'Hitler wanted to spend more time playing with his dog' etc... ).

No. The RAF won. The Luftwaffe lost.

Period.

 

It depends on who's attacking, who's closest to home (fuel).

If they both took off from fields 10 miles apart (and couldn't attack each others bases), I'd probably take the 109 for the above reasons of better climb rate (always a +) & cannons.

I chose the Spit anyway for Slightly better visibility (most great pilots had phenomenal vision, but you have to be able to see out first), and slightly better turning ability.

When you're mixing it up (close in) spraying out 8 303s has a better chance of hits, than chunking out cannon shells at a fast moving/turning target.


just another opinion

 

Spitfire Mk I V Bf 109E.
In truth, its too close to call. It would mostly depend on the skill of the pilot.