Discussion in 'Concentration, Death Camps and Crimes Against Huma' started by GRW, Mar 7, 2020.
Count Ciano's wife was an SS general. Honorary titles. Again, you don't know.
you people do not provide any proof of a crime
thank you.....it is what I've been saying:
''''with knowledge that it was being used for the commission of acts declared criminal by Article 6 of the Charter, or who were personally implicated as members of the organization in the commission of such crimes, excluding, however, those who were drafted into membership by the State in such a way as to give them no choice in the matter, and who had committed no such crimes''''
please read the above from your link ...do you understand it? here: the word ''excluding''.....''in commision of such crimes''.....''who had committed no such crimes'''
did you not even read your own link????!!!!!!????
.....it's saying the people who did not commit crimes are excluded ..also, those who did not know crimes were being committed/etc
also--a big also-WW2 Germany was not the fairytale land of the US or UK..please see here from your link: '' in such a way as to give them no choice'''
You people do not provide any proof that he isn't a criminal. Denialism is a trait of crypto-fascists.
Well, that was a masterclass in only reading what you want to see.
From the OP-
So member of an illegal organisation.
He can hardly turn round and claim he didn't know people were going to die on the march, having witnessed others doing so in the camp.
Key word there being evidence.
Doesn't SOUND like "excluding people with no choice" to me.
He had previously been in the Kriegsmarine. I doubt if he was forcibly transferred.
And more from the NY Times-
“Mr. Berger made his choice to enlist in 1943 in the German military,” Mr. Rosenbaum said in an interview on Friday...Mr. Berger then made another choice, Mr. Rosenbaum said, to not request a transfer when he was assigned to a sub-camp overseeing prisoners in the Neuengamme concentration camp system near Meppen, Germany."
"I know bits and pieces,” she added, noting she had some limited conversations with Mr. Berger. “He didn’t realize the extent of what was happening when he was there,” she said of his time stationed at the camp, adding that he had told her that he quickly sought to be reassigned elsewhere."
So he did know what was happening...and lied about asking to be transferred.
"Prosecutors have no evidence of Mr. Berger lying about his work in the concentration camp."
So he didn't deny it.
And these tell you why he's being deported-
"the 1978 Holtzman Amendment to the Immigration and Nationality Act, which deemed “deportable” anyone who participated in Nazi-sponsored persecution...
...The judge, in her opinion, found Mr. Berger removable under the act for his “willing service as an armed guard of prisoners at a concentration camp where persecution took place.”
....like I said, in the US it's innocent until proven guilty...the person charged doesn't have to prove anything .....also, you are changing your tune--first it's if you are part of the SS you are guilty...then you change it/move the goal posts to only some are gulity
again--plain and simple --what is his crime?
...not every SS man was a criminal/bad/evil/etc ---plain and simple .....
..judges are not perfect and he did not even get a fair trial--just like the nazis used to do = makes the judge a hypocrite
...also what is very silly is a lot of Germans [civilians and military ] knew about a lot of crimes ..why just choose 1 group to be criminal?? very silly/idiotic/etc
In the USA, this is an immigration/deportation case, not a criminal case. Hence the ruling in an immigration court. Therefore, there only needs to be sufficient cause under applicable immigration law to deport him. Gordon's post spells that out pretty clearly. By the way, "innocent until proven guilty..." is incomplete. It leaves out "...in a court of law". That is a principle of the US criminal justice system. As previously stated, he is not being tried in US criminal court.
The hunt for Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann, 1961
He hasn't actually had a criminal trial yet; that's why they're deporting him to Germany.
1) He was a member of an organisation denounced as criminal in 1946.
2) He admitted being stationed at a concentration camp and knowing what was going. He then contradicted himself by claiming he "didn't know the full extent of it."
In that case, he's both a proven liar and complicit.
3) He admitted not asking for a transfer out of the camp. Why, when he claimed to have at least some knowledge of what was happening?
4) He's known to have been a guard on a forced march on which prisoners were mistreated and died.
5) He was formerly in the Kriegsmarine. How did he get in the SS? A lot of naval personnel were transferred to the SS permanently as replacement ground troops; was he one?
After the July plot, ships were required to have political officers and the Kriegsmarine forced to adopt the Nazi salute; did he transfer to the SS voluntarily as a show of loyalty to the regime?
1. why is he being deported in the first place!!??
2. he was a guard on a forced march where people died----that's a crime???!!! what specifically did he do??
3. again, this sounds like what the nazis did--guilty before innocent
4. unless SS recruits signed a paper saying they knew they were supposed to commit crimes/etc, you can't paint them all with a broad brush--THAT is what the nazis did ..it doesn't matter if a bunch of SS committed crimes---you have to prove each person's crime
You're having a laugh. You must be.
Well, now I have TWO people on ignore.
Guarding hundred of people who are poisoned, burned and removed of their families. Is that not a crime? We have in Europe 90+ guards condemned and they deserve it. Age is not a reason to let them go. I have no problem to send them to Court and often even hear their victims' proof. Left or right. You Die or work.
He's 94 years old...he'll probably die before the verdict..another John Demjanjuk.
I don't know how anyone can argue in his favor. He was a member of the SS, a criminal organization. He did not (could not have) admitted to this on his immigration papers which makes him an illegal immigrant. Deport his ass. Period. The only question I (if I was an immigration bureaucrat) would ask is "Do the Israelis want him?" If they do, if he is on their list as wanted, I'd send him there rather than Germany. I'd also seize every penny, every piece of property, he has accrued in the 60 years (whatever) he was here as a criminal illegal alien.
He is not an American citizen. He deserves nothing from us except an immigration hearing. He's had that, so send him to whatever country wants to give him a criminal trial.
"We will not forget. We will not give up. Think of this next time."
From online descriptions, Neuengamme was a prison / slave labor camp. It wasn't a concentration camp for a certain nationality or ethnicity. Nor was it an extermination camp (at least not willfully.)