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West Point Cadet Quits Citing Religious Pressures

Discussion in 'Military Training, Doctrine, and Planning' started by Poppy, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    When one wants to get rid of one's dog , one tells he bites. I suspect there is more about this than just religion.
     
  2. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Quite the opposite for me. I was required to go to church in boot camp, and I couldn't put none in the "religion" block on any document. (So I wrote Zoroastrian.)
    I admire your amazing sources of information on what the young man thinks. I would love to see some links. (In case of "bald assertion without evidence" you may ignore that.)
     
  3. Ken The Kanuck

    Ken The Kanuck Member

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    What I have a hard time with is the attitude "well everything has to change to suit me".

    Guess what you go to a Black Panther meeting and start spouting some White Power crap it's not going to end well for you. You go to a biker bar and start sashaying around looking like a flaming homosexual, it's not going to end well for you.

    These institutions have thier systems if you don't like the system go elsewhere.

    KTK
     
  4. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Those amazing sources are in the link in the OP. He argued and protested and started campus groups, and when he couldn't get his way he quit.
     
  5. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    Put him in the frontline in Afghanistan and he'll find religion pretty quick
     
  6. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    That's certainly one version of the events.
     
  7. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Funny, I didn't. Twenty years, I never saw God around WTSHTF.
     
  8. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Whoa there Poppy.....What's this about?...Would have thought the military would not want religion to be a part of it's fibre....

    Religion has always been part of the military in the UK....Basic training figures highly with the old Padre in my day. I spent many a wasteful time arguing with em on their role and their position as a new recruit. Even refused to leave rifle outside as it was not welcome in his catholic house of worship on compulsary church parade days. Went down not so well...Never could get my head around why they chose to be part of the higher table in the military. As useful to me at the time as any Rupert or Rodney with rings on their arms. Some of em loved the uniform.

    In fact in basic in seventies, you were not allowed NOT to have a religion. When asked and seperated to go to various churche parades, saying you were not religious got the response...ok..Church Of England...fall out with that lot...
     
  9. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Same here. I was ordered to go to some kind of religious service every week while in boot camp. Didn't take. In the US we have separation of church and state written into the Constitution. This is constantly under attack by people who consider their god more important than their laws. They do not fail to scamper back under the cloak of the Constitution if they find it useful, of course.
     
    syscom3 and SKYLINEDRIVE like this.
  10. texson66

    texson66 Ace

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    I won't want this whiner to lead troops in battle with his sense of "can't take the pressure" nonsense. Good riddance.
     
  11. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    "Discrimination" in the military is well known issue from time immemorial. My great great uncle, who was a cavalry officer in the Sardinian army (no Italy yet), wrote he had been passed over for promotion for NOT being a freemason, and we all know about Dreyfus. Possibly more critical in today's US army as a lot of conflicts have religious undertones and a multi-religious or agnostic army is likely to be more effertive dealing with them, on the other hand religious beliefs are a big part of what people are "ready to die for" (or kill for) anything that infringes on them is going to be terrible for morale and unit cohesion.
    A military academy is no place for activism, but discrimination is not a good thing, the devil is the details there, from what I read it looks like the guy was out of line but it's very easy for an unsympathetic reporter to spin things to look that way.
     
  12. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    double post, IE 9 is ......
     
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  13. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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  14. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    I don't think so, I was stationed on the East Coast, West Coast, Texas, Florida, New Orleans, Okinawa, served overseas in quite a few foreign countries and went on several floats, and have been stationed on US Army, Marine Corps and Navy Bases. I never noticed any particular difference.
     
  15. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    Technically, that phrase is not in the Constitution, but from a letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Church. The First Amendment has been interpreted, through the use of the Danbury letter, as having that meaning. However, it is not "written into the Constitution".

    Not arguing for compulsory theism (or compulsory atheism for that matter). Just making a clarification. :)
     
  16. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Cheers UP... Wonder if Urq's experience was universal over yonder...Wonder how the British treated the Ghurkas regarding religion.
     
  17. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    If you don't like people exercising the first amendment, your options are to shut the f^<# up. Especially if you've taken an oath to defend the constitution.
     
  18. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    As far as I know the Ghurkars were and are looked after religiously. No fall out your a Church of England then for them.

    Religion has always played a part in British armed forces, both compulsary and voluntary. Most of us just ignored it and them...I still to this day acknowledge the welfare role priests and vicars etc can provide...especially in basic to home sick youngsters...But what is their need to be officer and share the mess and the demarcation line between officer and manpower that then exists. I would never trust a priest in uniform..Though shalt not kill comes to mind..I had a choice when I joined up...God of course is on the side that the priest wears the uniform of...Usually the winner. cos our god always is better than their god..even if he is German or Italian..Our god is a winner.

    They were and I think still are known as Jesus Jockeys and in the main are put up with..then again you get the odd one worth his spurs like 2 paras in the Falklands.
     
  19. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    I just re-read the original article and despite it being clearly sympathetic to this guy's complaint, it seems obvious to me that he is a political activist in military clothing. He seems to have gone in with an agenda and has been very successful in drawing attention to his cause. In the entire article, I saw only one direct accusation of wrongdoing on the part of the military and that was the alleged denying of applications to leave campus. Every other "offense" was a complaint about what someone said to him with which he disagreed. If he can't handle that, then his is the one with a tolerance problem. Which brings me back to this guy being an activist. This closing line to the story did not surprise me at all:

    And this line, I found depressing:

    :rolleyes:
     
  20. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Activism has to be put behind you when you join a club with rules that do not allow activism. You can have your thoughts and beliefs. But you know the rules of the club when you join that club. I'm pretty left wing and was allowed a certain lee way as you would expect in a democratic society, but I knew the lines that could not be crossed and would not nor would not want to cross them. Acting on unlawful orders would have been the only thing I can think of that I may have said stuff this club, but it never happened and no need to question the club rules ever arose in my career in military. We have the choice to join or not, if you do, abide be the rules and leave the activism until you leave the club. Even then bringing your club into disrepute should be only done with extreme provication.
     

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